The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode 75 · 2 months ago

An Interview with John McMahon Part 1

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Author and Sales Leader Veteran John McMahon joins John Kaplan to discuss themes in his new book, “The Qualified Sales Leader”. McMahon has been the Chief Revenue Officer at five public, enterprise software companies – PTC, Geo-Tel, Ariba, BladeLogic and BMC. Now he sits on the board at several public software companies including Snowflake and MongoDB.

More Information:

- BUY THE BOOK: The Qualified Sales Leader

- https://amzn.to/3lflri3 

- How to Ensure You’re Selling for a Great Company

- https://bit.ly/3zFLO4p  

- The Secrets to Aligning Your Company on Customer Value and Differentiation

- https://bit.ly/3eXCHnO

- The Right Methodology to Ensure Your Technology Sells

- https://bit.ly/2VgrpEk 

Check out this and other episodes of The Audible-Ready Podcast at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website. 

Cooler our ideal customers we are, weare product, aligns perfectly to a not only the product, but it's a salesforce ready to call those types of companies to and do they have thehighest propensity to buy our product and buy it now, and when you do thattype of homework, that's when you can optimize sales productivity, optimizeaverage deal size and then start to really scale your sales. For us. You are listening to the audible, ready,podcast. The show that helps you and your teams sell more faster willfeature sales leader sharing their best insights on how to create a salesengine that helps you feel repeatable revenue growth presented by the team Fforce management, a leader in PT sales effect on this. Let's get started hello and welcome to the audible, ReddySales Podcast, I'm Rachel Clapp Miller. Today we are featuring our interviewwith John macmann of you. Listening out. There know him or you forced with him,he's been that chief revenue officer at five public enterprise softwarecompanies, P TC, go Tel Areba, blade logic and vme. He was a pre IPO memberof four of those companies, and now he sits on the board at several publicsoftware companies, including snowflake and mango deb, and he has a new bookout called the qualified sales leader. It's available wherever you buy books,our own John Caplin work for macmann at P, TC and McManus used force in severalof his companies these to go way back when it comes to sales performance.It's a great conversation enjoying here. We go John macmann and thank you forbeing a part of the audible, ready, podcast, we're so excited to ave youtoday, we've actually talked about doing this for a long time, so I'mecstatic that you are able to fit it into your busy schedule. Welcomebrother, thank you, big Bu, Bu, BA bad johnny cap. Yes, sir, here I werrit now we have thegloves are on so this is in to be it's gonna, be a me level. Melon Salts arein the corner at right, hey brother, congratulations on your outstandingwork of the qualified sales leader. I think the book is kind of smashingrecords for these types of books on Amazon and I've had the chance to readit. I actually was sweating through parts of it was wondering if you weregoing to utilize names. If you were talking about some of these challengesthat needed to be overcome, but just congratulations, brother I'd like toask you a couple of questions like. Why did you decide to write the book? Well,a lot of times I be in meetings. You know as a consultant and Advisor Boardbeing a board meeting or go to be invited to go to a TB or you know anytype of you know, sale situation or or...

...dising situation, and I might saysomething that I think is kind of ordinary and then after the meetingsome people would say to me hey. You know what you said in that meeting wasreally impressive and I said well what was that and they remind me and thenthey said you know what book? Could I read that in and I thought to myself:There is no book you could read that in and then they say. Well, why don't whydon't you write a book some day so and it's always been in the back of my mindand then I realize, like you know, I'm not going to go in any more operatingroles and I see a lot of organizations that are start up organizations thatcould do a lot better if they had some sort of plan to what they're doing- andI thought if I could put this in- writing and make it kind of easy toread, not a like Boring Textbook, where you read one chapter and your headhurts, but if I can make it easy conversational with a nice narrative toit, then you know, maybe I couldn't give something back to the community.That's given me so much! It was so well done brother. You know the thing thatstruck me the. When I first started reading. It was the way that you did it,the narrative that you use the story, so it's kind of man. I don't want togive away too much of it, but it kind of manifests itself into kind of thisadvisor. That's working with this company and it's observing kind of likea BR process, but I got to tell you: I've never read a business book likethis. That really takes the time to create a narrative, so the story thatgets created in chapter one, it's actually finishing at the end of thechapter most of these things are kind of they feel like boiler play templetscookie cutter. I took these three chapters out of some blog that I didover here and then I kind of pasted them all together. So that must havebeen a significant effort for you. But what kind of feedback are you gettingon that narrator yeah? First, like I'm, not really a great writer. So initiallyI sat down a lock myself in a in a room for four days and just wrote down awhole bunch of notes and stuff, but I a whole bunch of words doesn't make abook you could, I probably could have wrote the book in a month if I wantedto build a boring textbook that had at the end of it. You know these fivethings you got to remember and yeah, but there's no real story to it. Sowhat I read one time is that if you want to write a non fiction business,but the reason people wanted is because they want to be transformed, so thatreally stuck with me. So the whole narrative of the book is, I start witha company, that's not doing so well and a number of characters and thenthroughout the book I try to take them from where they are today to a real,positive future state, and I helped to transform these people and I thinkthat's what really resonate with people. I think you did a great job with it. Imean there were just I think, characters that I could identify withas being a seller in my life before being a sales leader in my life beingan executive in a company being a customer. I just think you did such agreat job of capturing all of those...

...perspectives, and I know that that wasnot easy. So if again, we're talking about the qualified sales leader, we'vehad John macmann with us and unbelievable, probably the the mostimpact enterprise sales leader in the history of enterprise software sales,and so, if you haven't, had a chance to go and get that book, it's on Amazon.Do yourself a favor. Do Your career favor go out today and make sure thatyou get that so, let's dig into it, you got it just we have it up a little bit.What about the Forecast Session Dorn, the BR? I had some people telling whenthey were reading it, that they felt their hands starting to sweat. You knowif it was worse that it was more sweatin my hands. We can all resonate to how much peoplereally hate that. So that's where I started with a forecast or you sessionin the Br to show really in most companies it is pretty dysfunctionaland how you can really transform that into a more positive meeting. You knowI mean at the end of the day when you really think about that moment of truthof an organization, a leader, a rap being able to call the ball. Where areyou going to finish? How are you going to accurately predict Your Business? Imean I've given advice for years, telling people that, if you are notreliable on the way that you predict your business, you will never nevermove up a sales organization. You'll, never lead a sales organization. So thefact that you kind of open up the book and put us right in that moment oftruth was there was some perspiration happening for me as well. Well, whatyou said is you know a lot of it, your ability to call the ball. As you saidit, you know, especially from a from a manager perspective, really tells mehow intimate you are, how intimate you are with your sales people, theirstrength, their weaknesses, the different skills. They have theirknowledge level, and it also says to the accounts that you haven't been onwith those reps. how good are you at qualifification them and how intimateyou are with those people? So how intimate are you with the accounts? Howintimate are you with the people really is a a forecasting is a telling sign ofhow intimate you are in those situations kind of like it's kind oflike a symptom of it. Isn't it yeah for sure? So, let's stay on that topic forjust a second on rapskallion or let's talk about intimacy is that relates tosales leadership and making sure they have the right people on the rightaccounts in one of the gems that I picked out in the book it talked about.You know, the majority of raps are not making their quota just around theworld, and I think in your book you point out. Sixty two percent of repsfail because they're assigned to the wrong accounts deep dive in that alittle bit. What is your thinking around that? What's going on? Well,there's two things that are going on one is people are being recruited intothe wrong wrong companies. They may not...

...have the right skill set or knowledge,and then the second thing is: There's people once they're inside a companyare being assigned to the wrong accounts and they don't have the skillset or may not have the skill set to call on those accounts and a lot ofpeople might think- and I've heard this before. Well, you know sales his sales,you know if a guy could sell, he could sell it, she could sell, she could selland I say well, I'm not so sure that that's true is football. Football ishockey hockey. You know it's any sport, any sport, the same sport. So you knowmy analogy. Is Tom Brady on the God, it's almost hard to say that he's onthe Tampa Bay, buccaneers, Tom Brady ill go down as may be one ofthe greatest quarterbacks that ever lives and no one will really doubt hisknowledge of the game right, but his football really football. Can you takeTom Brady and assign him to the wide receiver? Positiono he'll fall on thefirst play. Could you recruit him on to a different team and put him in theline back er position? No he'll fall on the first play, so I don't think peopletake enough time to analyze who are the right candidates for a company of ourstage and our size with our accounts, the personas we're going to call on andthe use cases that we have and are we also once we've recruited these peopleand we train them and develop them so that they can be assigned to the rightaccounts and match the skill set required to be successful in thoseaccounts right calling on a small company where it's just one lineorganization is one thing calling on a company where they have divisions thatare spread throughout a couple states and then is also a corporate people andtrying to Corowa those people into a common decision criteria. Commondecision process, one cost justification wow, that's a completely differentskill set and a lot of times, ress get thrown into these situations, or theyeven think themselves that they can handle these accounts and they reallycan't and they found down your let's stay on this topic of intimacy and whenI work for you, I'm not even sure this is nothing against recruitingorganizations or recruiting resources. That was never your point when you toldus that we were responsible for recruiting. I understand it now so muchmore than I understood it, then, because it's this intimacy of there'sknowledge, their skills and there's character and I'm kind of summarizing.What you're saying this is what it's turned into for me. The company hascertain responsibilities of okay. We can give you knowledge if we'reexpecting you to have knowledge before you come to the role or if calling onthese types of accounts create some...

...need for specific knowledge as well asskills is just as important to an individual's character, and I think,for years all the books are written about. You know find people with greatcharacter and, like hey we're just you know. Yes, that is true, and we have tomake sure that we're finding the people of great character. But what your pointin this book for me was selling is more complex than that todayit is, there is collaboration. Very rarely are we one person selling onething to another? Individual people are buying as a service, which means theyprobably have some type of an engagement in the beginning, some typeof commitment, some type of customersuccess or renewal. So now you have all these other skills and collaborationsthat are needed. But your point that jumped out at me in the book is, if youdon't get intimate with the watch and the, how of what you're going to askthese people to do when you're, recruiting them and then you're notintimate with that when you're, making a territory assignments and accountassignments, or what have you? That's probably why that number is so high onsixty two percent of the raps out. There are falling right, the Toro thinkabout it like what you said is the what and how the what is is the plan book.So, yes, you know the hockey team, the football team, they all have a playbook and every player needs to be knowledgeable about that playbook. Theycan't actually think when the place called they have to know. So, there'sno thinking you have to know and then as to how how do I execute each inevery step of that play twiles and that's when they're out on the practicefield every day, doing drills drill? Do it again? Do it again, do it againuntil we make it flawless so there's you know, like you, said, differentaspects of knowledge and his different aspects of execution or how this playis supposed to be pulled off lawlessly and it's no different in selves. Idon't know why people think it's different, thenselves yeah. I think itnot people that you might think of as part what I might call artists. I'vehad a couple. People work like that for me, and those people are people thatcan do certain things without thinking of exactly how they're doing it rightit might be analogous to Wan Gretsch I mean he was just a phenomenal playerand if you probably asked them well break down how you actually did that, Iprobably didn't think about it, whereas other people may have to think aboutthree different things. Just to do one thing that he did right so yeah, it'sdifferent people, but to your point it goes back to how intimate are you withyour players and do you know what they know and do you know how theycan execute the play where their strengths are, where their weaknessesare, where they need coaching, where they have fears where they have beensecurities? You have to know those things as a leader, and I think I thatyou did such a great job. I mean like...

...words matter and the way you titled Thebook, the Qualified Sales Leader so words matter for me when I read yourbook and it became crystal clear as I went through the book, you weredefinitely talking about qualification, all aspects of everything that we do.You are also talking about being a leader and it doesn't mean that you,when you grab this book and when you're listening to this, don't shut down andsay: Well, I'm not a sales leader. So I shouldn't buy this. You know Ishouldn't buy this book. You know the best feedback you ever gave me John.When we were talking about going to the next level when I was working for you,you said: Hey Caplin. If you want the next job act like you already have it, and because you did such a great job ofhaving a play book out there, it was like the answers to the test. So if Iwanted to get the next job, so people listen out there. If you want to getthe next job and lead people, I would get this book if I'm a sales rap. Today,number one you're going to learn instantly and immediately how to doyour job better, but you're also going to get a great lens on how to coach anddevelop your people, and I just want to commend you, John for the qualifiedsales leader. I think you did a great cat. was there anything else for us tohow you pack that T, if you think about it, why why that word? I think that'swhere you originally going is qualification. If you think about whatyou do, whether you're a rap or a manager, if you'm a manager, I have toqualify who I recruit, I have to qualify like we said, or where do I putthem have to qualify the accounts? I have to qualify the Foda. I have toqualify what my boss wants. I have to qualify customers when they call me andit's all, I'm constantly doing is qualifying and what makes a greatqualifier I've put. Some of those components in the book, too, is, firstand foremost with your ing it you and your team. You have to have a commonvocabulary, so I can't tell you how many times I go in to a organization Ihear them go over the forecast and a they're throwing out words championEconomic Bimer by the bother all that type of stuff, and then I stand up, andI say since I'm new to this crowd. Could I ask you a question? You knowJohn Catlin. What do you mean by the word champion and then you give me adefinition I hey sally. Could you tell me what you mean she gives me adifferent ex definition. Then I turned to Joe Joe. What do you think and Joegives me a different one, and I realized there's no common vocabularyin this in this company they're all talking past each other right and then,after that you know, you have to be a great listener and too many people justwant to talk instead of truly listening and then so many people are what I callin a constant state of partial attention, especially these days.Social media texts, email calls, videos, people walking in your office, TotalDistraction, non stop and very few...

...people stop whatever they're doing, canconcentrate on who's speaking to them or concentrate on the subject at handbecause they're in a constant state of partial attention. In order to do thosethings you have to be here, you have to be in the moment you have to be in thenow. If you're, not here and in the moment you can't be a great listener,and if you're not here and in the moment you can't be a great listenerand then you can't use your intuition and that's where I also see a lot ofsales people that I've been in meetings with they may be here. They might maybe arelistening, but they're, not maybe they're, not completely here, becausethey're thinking about what they're going to say and then because of thatthey have no intuition they can into it. They can't like feel the room. Theycan't feel the direction of the conversations going and then they saysomething and you think man that is so off topic of where we are right now.Why? Because you're not really here, you're, not really listening, you're,not really intuiting, you see what I mean: Yeah Dude, I think that's sopowerful of the so many Golden Nuggets and what you just said. I I think aboutNicab in Alabama's, Alabama University football coach he's got up these kindof like the bill balloted for our global listeners. It's the ManchesterUnited, it's the form of the top formula, one teams, whatever the topcricket teams or whatever they just win championships all the time. He has asaying that says you have to play from wherever your feet are. His point isabout being president, not the last play, not the next play and I thinktying into our knowledge, skills and character piece. The part that you ownin that as a seller or sales leader, is that you have to consume the knowledgeand the skills like how does gretser just do something normally or naturally.Well, it was a natural for him when he first started. There was some knowledgethat he needed to choir h. There was some skills and some repetition, andthen the character is just committing yourself to being excellent at it beinga student of the game, and I really love what you've outlined in your bookis Hey. These are the basics like this is how to be a student of the game andthe Tian is that's where you get intuition from when you own theknowledge in the skills you have, you have more confidence and you can bemore intuitive. You can listen more you're, not second guessing yourself,you're, not okay. What am I going to say next? What should I say next? So Ithink that's a great tient yeah. Well, you move out through those differentstates of unconsciously incompetent to yes, you know consciously incompetentto consciously confidence, unconsciously confident you know so.Yes, somebody like a Gradski was unconsciously, confident right. So sometimes those types of coaches,though, have a hard time going down to somebody, that's unconsciously,incompetent and telling them exactly what they had to do, because they were,they were artists right. So yes, sometimes some of the best leaders make...

...came from the reps that maybe struggledthe most and they knew all the different steps you had to do and theystruggled through those steps. So when they become a leader they're able totake somebody, that's unconsciously, incompetent or consciously incompetentand walk them through those different steps because they had they had to gothrough the struggling. As you always say, the learning is in the struggleyeah. I think you buddy that's! Your next book is like I'm thinking aboutyeah yeah. WELL IT I'LL! Let you off the hook, maybe it'sa podcast series, but we could do a whole pot last Noris, painful yeah,okay, yeah, but the point that I really love that your high lighting is. Youcould be a great rap out there listening today and really reallylisten to what the advice that John's giving you is when you areunconsciously competent, that's actually almost as dangerous as beingunconsciously, incompetent and or consciously incompetent, you're, almostbetter off being consciously incompetent, because you know what yourgaps are. One of my big struggles when I took over as the sales leader is- andI remember going to my brother, who was older than me and had a similar role tothat. I did and leadership, and I remember he said: Hey John. He said tome: Are you a little frustrated? The people aren't like you like exactly exactly and he was justtrying to prove a point to me was well that can't be your that can't be withwhere you land to take on your leadership role. That's just just astatement. People are not going to be. Where you are, you wouldn't have gottenthe job. Do you know why you're good at what you do right and do you have theability to teach it so again, qualified sales leader, I thought, did a greatjob when we really if the people are out there that are unconsciouslycompetent or have been told that before you go and read your book and you'relike yeah, I do that. I done that and now it's powerful so now I can connectto that and say: okay, that's why I'm pretty good at what I do there, andmaybe I have some gaps over there. SO THAT'S I! I love the book for that Yeah.I ask a lot of reps when they used to tell me or ask me hey, you know I wantto become a sales leader. Are they really you have any kids and they sayyeah I got to why. Why do you ask- and I said well, why do you want five more?They saw you talking about and I said well when you were single your worldwasn't about you. It was all it was and it was all about you. It was about. Youknow when you got a what you ate when you went to bed what activities you did,what you did on the weekend. It was all about you, you know and then, once youhad kids what happened it wasn't about you anymore. It was about the kids, youknow when they get up when they go to bed what they ate, what they do anyactivities on the weekend your whole world is around now became, was intheir world right and then the other...

...thing you quickly discover is thesekids that grew up in the same household with the same parents, are completelydifferent. They got different strengths, different weaknesses, and now yourealize hey. I got to coach these kids. If I want them to be successful, I gota coach thow based upon their different strengths. Weakness is in insecuritiesfears, desires, goals, needs wants and, if you're not willing to do that and beself less about it, if you won't be selfless, then you won't be a greatleader. So if you do want to transition from sales rep to sales leader, you gotto take your ego off unscrew it before you leave the house, put it on thedresser, leave it at home and understand that this job is not aboutyou anymore. It's about them and when you make those people successful bydefinition, you're successful. That's such a good point. I think I remembersomebody telling to me when I took over my firstleadership my first managementroll. My boss said to me: congratulations. You have just lostyour right to think about yourself. First, yes- and I didn't know, heardthat before that I sat with it first. Second, I didn't really understand whatit meant, but then, as I got into the roll, I'm like okay, I get this and soas we're going through this book as you're reading this book. One of thesuggestions that I have for you for our listeners, no matter what your role is,I want you to have two lenses. As you read this book, the First Lens Is, ifI'm a sales leader, I want you to have a lens that says this is the what andhow of the play book and of success. So it's not whether or not you do thesethings. If you are a sales leader first, you have to understand the knowledgeand skills, but then you also have to understand. How can I coach and developthese, and I think, John and your book in the qualified sales leader you dosuch a good job of that, so that's from the qualified sales leader perspective.Now, if you're the seller, I want you to keep those same two glasses on. Iwant you to put your glasses on as okay. This is the play book. This is what I'msupposed to execute against, but when you put your leaders glasses on and say,okay, this is why they're asking me to do this. This is their perspective andalso what we already talked about is: okay, those are the glasses I'm goingto wear. When I take the next job, I found that people that do that in theircareers that wear two glasses my current job and the job that I want tohave they always out, performed the current role that they have. Would youagree with that? Yeah, a hundred percent awesome. Now. The last thing Iwant to talk about before we move off this topic. You started the topic on acommon vocabulary and John when I got recruited to P TC. I was amazed when then I moved up in theorganization than when I started to travel around the world with thecompany, the definition of a champion...

...or the definition of most likely or thedefinition of whatever was in the play book. The measurable definition was theexact same in Tokyo, Japan as it was in Detroit Michigan, and I, as people arereading through the book and listening to this and if you're a company, wouldyou spend John just a moment: Let's not gloss over this common language andgloss over alignment and marketing and sales and customer success. The reasonwhy we all have to use the same language and you can spot it a mileaway when you walk into these companies and there's silos going on talk alittle bit about that. Well, I think it's just first of all its just basic communication. If you have a different definitions of the samewords and I do, then you have a different picture in your mind than Ido when we're talking about the same story. So we think we're communicatingand we are exchanging a verbal we have in a verbal exchange, but theinformation that's being exchanged is completely different in your mind thanit is in my mind. So then you walk away with one picture of what you think youneed to do is the rep and I walk away with a different picture in my mind ofwhat you think what I think you should do as the rap right and then you comeback to me and you say yeah. I did exactly what you say and I said well,what did you do and then you did. You tell me, and I think well, that's notwhat I told you to do, but you weren't really not taking my instructions. Youhad a different picture in your mind than I did because you're using adifferent definition of the same words. So it's just't to me it's just basiccommunications and take it up one level gonore's. Take it up one level now nowyou're you're on some of the greatest company boards on the planet. I don'twant to leave any out, but you know Mongo and snowflake and lace work and Ican go on and on about the impact that you've had now. I want you to put thoseglasses on because there's I left out an audience. As I was reading this Ithought every single, CEO and or even a board member, that's trying tounderstand. What's going on and translating from corporate kind ofvision, sort of speak from company vision down to sales execution, thisalignment piece. When I hear you talk about that when I read about that kindof in the book, there's an audience there too to make sure because sales isI mean, marketing has marching orders sales has marching orders. Customersuccess has marching orders renewals str inside sellers. It's like all thesefood groups. If you get a lip, you remember that when we were kids, theysaid you know, do the little thing you do with a cup or whatever you'd, listen,and somebody would say something to you really are old, don't even try it dud.Don't even get me started so then you whisper to. I forget what you call it,but you whisper what you heard from somebody, and you whisper that tosomebody else, and then that gets e t e,...

...because there's no common language,nobody checks it and says: Okay by the time it gets around the group, it hasmorphet into something completely different. So do you believe, like I do.I hope you believe this a leader of a company, a Co of the company, to readthis book around the topics that we're talking about for alignment and forcommon vocabulary is just as critical yeah. Oh absolutely and I get a bunchof Nice emails from CEOS of startup companies and even some of whom thatare already public and saying wow. You know you really did a great job andthanks thanks for that. Some of these guys, I don't even know, but it's oneof the ones that hit home the most. When I go into these especially startupcompanies, is they don't have any type of ideal customer profile. So whathappens? Is Most of these companies are started by a technologists and atechnologist believes that everyone's going to buy their baby and maybe someday everybody will buy their baby, but in the early stages of a company,whether it was P TC and we sold to medical device manufactures andconsumer electronics first or flue snowflake, and we only sold to tech andantecocen. You had to figure out early on what are the strength of my product.You know what use cases do they do they support where those pains arewho's the person? No, what companies of those and what industries are those inand then build messaging, like your company, doesn't break out a buildingmessaging along those lines to focus on the ICEPOND. What I see that peoplehappening is they start the company, the company's only it doing a couplemillion dollars and they have people calling on the biggest financial banksin the world all the way down to small nonhos, but they haven't figured outwho the the real ideal customer profile is and then burning money and it takesthem three or four rounds of money to figure out man. Maybe we ought tofigure out who we really should sell his product to, and I use the analogyof Jesse James, who was the famous bank robber in the E s. He robbed likeThorty one banks him and is just the James Gang. They called them and he wasasked. Why do you rob banks and sit because that's where the money isabsolutely and that's no different for a start up or for any company to figureout colar ideal customers where we are products aligns perfect loop to themand not only the product, but it's a sales force ready to call those typesof companies to and do they have the highest propensity to buy our productand buy it now, and when you do that type of homework, that's when you canoptimize sales productivity, optimize, average deal size and then start toreally scale your sales for us. I love that John and that works so nicely toour belief in what we call the four essential questions. When you go downthat path, it's now you have that ideal customer, but what shapes you'rethinking is okay. So what problems do...

...we solve for those customers? Howspecifically do we solve them? How do we solve them differently or better anddepending upon the stage of the product either? Where are we going to show thatwe've done it before or who we going to stand up? That is going to say thatcreates proof points case. Studies and testing thing is what is thequantifiable business value that the customers get and if it's not a majorquantifiable business value, you're, probably hunting in the wrong tree thewrong tree? That's it! That's part. One of our interview with John macmann partto post tomorrow be sure to check it out and thank you for listening atforce management. We're focused on transforming sales organizations intoelite teams, are proven methodologies. Deliver programs that build companyalignment and fuel repeatable revenue grown. Give your teams the ability toexecute the gross strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience.The proof is in our results. Let's get started visit us that Force ManagementCom you've been listening to the audible, ready podcast to not miss anepisode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until nexttime, E T.

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