The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode 61 · 7 months ago

Lessons Learned in Sales W/ Patrick McLoughlin


This episode is the first in our new podcast series “Lessons Learned in Sales”, John Kaplan talks with Senior Director of Consulting and Facilitation Patrick McLoughlin about his own career including:

- The lessons he’s learned from some great managers and the mantra he uses today

- The worst mistake he ever made

- The time a colleague stole a prospect’s glasses

This is a conversation you don’t want to miss!

Here are some additional podcasts featuring PaddyMac:




Check out this and other episodes of The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

And you know what he does he reachesacross the table and he gelvs the classes off the customers day. You're listening to the audible, ready,podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster willfeature sales leader sharing their best insights on how to create a salesengine that helps you feel repeatable revenue growth presented by the team atforce management, a leader in BTB sales effectin. This let's get started hi it's Rachel with the audible, readysales podcast. Today we are going to be launching our new series. Lessonslearned in sales were asking some sales veterans, five questions about wherethey've been and what they learned in their sales career. For this episode,John Caplin Talks With Force Management Senior Director for consulting andfilcilitation Patrick mcofflan, hey it's my great pleasure and honor tointroduce to our listeners today, Patrick mcoflin betterknown as PattyMac and Patty Mac. I'm really really looking forward to this conversationtoday, thanks for stending. Some time with US sure thing, John Happy to behere: Hey brother. So before we get started, tell Aslope at how you? Howdid you first come? beforece management- oh well, Brianan, wash as many as youknow. I spent my career at Serox Corporation and happened to work withBrian and be around Brian for many years. That would be another podcastteloing telling Brian Wall Stories Brian ad reached out to me about fiveyears ago, and he knew that I was pointg my career, where I was lookingto make some some decisions and some moves and he said: Hey, we think o'd bea great fit oncet. You come in and meet with John Maybit team and Grand Daveand the rest of the organization, and you know what, when I came into forst,I felt the same type of family and atmosphere that I had multiple times inmy career. Entire team focused on one problem, ell built on working togetherand I was like wow, I'm not a big person into change, so leaving Zeroxwas very difficult decision. I can tell you: you'll have to pull pull me out,kicking and screaming to give me to LEAV force management now, but that'swhy I ended up here, atforce and yeah. I remember that, first, that firstmeeting that we had that you and I had I I just looked at you and I said thisperson is going to be perfect. ATFACILTATION for force management, sotell us a little bit about some of the career jobs that you had at Zerox. Thatkind of got you to this point with your great experience yeah. So we said thatSh, the big thing for me, John, as even just getting into sales to begin withright and when I graduated from college it was like for me was big on like whatam I going to do. I probably wasn't as driven and focused as I was later on inmy career, probably to he desplayof my parents, but a friend of my parents had me take themies breag chest and it came back that I should look to do sales and I waslike okay, that's what I'm going to do,...

...knowing anyone work behind a desk, so Istarted out working for a sales agency of ZEROC corporation and I had ZIPcodes. I col called every day I mean I you know, did that for for a number ofyears and then and then emenlly came along to tozerox corporations andaccount manager and then just things naturally pivoted to sales managementto a variety o different roles. I think people always wonder why I spend twentyfive years at Zerox and the reason is because I had new challenges and Iworked with great people. I think everything that we do in companies ishe people that we Doa t with, and I just think about the people thatinfluence my career and help develop me andto the salesperson. I was that firstday that I walked into apex communications in that, like last daythat I left as a vice president in the southeast United States was prettypretty impactful yeah. I was a I think. Most of the listeners know I spent timeat Zerox as well, and the company is such a great backdrop for people likeyou and I because of the great experiences like back in theday they were the sales training company and the training that wereceived there. I like to tell people I kind of got my. I got my undergraduatein sales at Serox and I got my you know. I got my MBA or my doctoratein sales from PDC, but zero was a legit, great culture, great experiences, greatpeople and they did such a great job, preparing us for for a sales career, sooo talk about yeah. Let's talk about that. A little bit dude like you know, I'm sure that you at thinkingback on your sales career, one of the questions I wante to ask you is, and Idon't mean to catch off guard on this, but, like you know the highs and lowsor the like, what is the worst mistake you ever made in a sales job? Oh, Iprobably could go on and on about deals and things that I did strategicallyattack. Tactically Wong, that's a good question. You know that my biggestmistake, John. I stayed in sales jobs too long. I I got too comfortable. Igot too focused on the short term gratification, meaning that I worked ondeals, developd a territory and then someone came along and said he pattywould like to promote hin review to a new position. That said well, why do Iwant to do that? I they don't v Cultivatein this farm now I want toreap the rewards of the of what I've done in it, and you know as much as myloyalty and my being comfortable, where I am, I think it probably wasdetrimental ind, my skillset development. I think people were comingto me looking for me to develop skill sets and I get N T, I'm not saying Imissed out, but maybe I did maybe I maybe I could have done more things ifI had taken on more responsibility earlier. So looking back on it, Iprobably would say I probably should...

...have looked at the long term goals alittle bit more carefully versus reacting to the short term successesthat I was focused on. You know, that's it's that's so relevant and I thinkit's. I bet that happens to a lot of ourlisteners. I suffered from the same thing and in the sense that it wasalways really hard for me, like Youd, build e team where you get a greatterritory and you know they move you and it was always it was kind of likeyou know. I just learned how to play a position, and now I want to be you knowI want to become an all pro. I want to get the accolades and it's like you know. First, you learn how to swimand then you're feeling comfortable in the pool and the next day yourbrother's, you know grabmy and they throw you into defences now. Okay, it'stime to learn how to swim in the deep tend, and I didn't even get to enjoythe sunshine in the in the Kitty Pool or whateve yeah. Exactly that'sinteresting in you know. I think that, just as you asyou go, what kind of advice would you give to the listeners that, as thepeople that are in that theyre they're in that situation, right now, they'rejust looking at it theyr go? How do I know when it's the right time to whenit's the right time to move yeah? So I guess I guess the thing is someonethe one said to me that when a pilot gets in a plane, they're always lookingfor that uneway they're, always looking for where they're going to go in case,something happens like that's, I'm not trying to take it from a badperspective. I guess M my biggest thing was, I remember when I became a salesmanater. I didn't think I could do it. I remember when I became a VP. I didn'tthink I could do it. I remember when I came to forect management and as afacilitator, I was more scared. My first facilitation that I was my firstsales call and in the vice that I got and why I decided to come with forcemanagement was, I was weighing a job from another technology company andfource management. Probably don't know that. But now you do- and I was on a golf course in Florida,the TPC and Sargrass and then executive was with friend of mine, was a bigexecutive in a major bank. I told him the two optionshe says: What's thedifference is it will tbe other job I can stroll into and do this job scaresme to death and he says, take the job that scares you to death because he'llkeep you on edge. So I would say this people all the time if you'recomplacent, if you can do it, if you're, if you don't have an element of O fear,that's driving you or learning that that's whete you want to be going tobecause then it makes you more fun because thon, when you accomplishthings, gopthe rewards are great. Like I love what we do on daily basens yeah,H, ve, you know dude thats such a great point. I think the I think the neuroscience around that would say that when you're challenged it actually createsenergy for you and when you're not challenged, and you can it's not thetpeople are trying to be complacent out there. It's just like if you can get upin the morning and do your job with...

...your eyes close, but an but the caveat.Is You don't get energy from it? Then that's a bad spot to be and what I lovewhen I see you every day or when I I wish, I could see every day, hopefullypostpandemic times we can get back to seeing aother every day. But, like youalways say to me, I can't believe that they pay me to do this job and that'sYe what'. That always told tells me about you is that you are gettingenergy from the job. The job is not taking your energy, so it's Youyeaho mystory and put it into a learning a bit for the people that are listiting. Sothanks for doing that, Yeah Yeah Yeah. I think it's. I think it's great advice,because I think people are if you're sitting out there right now and you'relistening and like the company just when you start to get comfortable, andyou start Kay now I'm going to really make my money and I get to play myposition and have a great year and and they pull you number one. You knowthink about the company WHO's pulling you out of that job, where they haven'trealized the benefits of you in that job, and that should really tell youlike their thought process. If they think you can do the next job,sometimes why don't we think we can do the next job? So it's a really goodkind of contemplation. Those are good problems to have absolutely I've reallybeen looking forward to this question. What's the funniest thing, that'shappened on a sales call. Oh Gosh, so Rachel told me that youwere going toask you that question, because she wanted to give me some time and repairand I got was in the car. I was thinking, oh my gosh. What am I goingto do and then one story popped in my mind and I can't top it so I'm going totell it. I was probably my thirty year sales. I had first, two years firstyear I got I made plan second year. I Make Presidents Club things you GOIGreally good third year, I'm just clicking I'm like I got this. I got hisdown and I got involved in a pretty large high volume, mid volume opportunitywith a publishing company outside of Washington DC, and you know back in theday in Serox we had sale specialist that handled certain product lines.That would support us on those sales calls and those opportunities. Theywere experts in the competition in the marketplace, the functions, featuresand productivity and evices we were selling. So his name is AurkChrysophole, because I'm want to make guard listen to this podcast. So artsays: Hey I'll, just meet you in Maryland at viacount. I said Okay Great,so we show up at the account and we're doing our precall plan in the parkinglot, and he says show me the proposal you get troug the product to get to thepricing and the benefits page for the business outcomes. We were selling andhe's looking for his classes. He can't find his gas SIS, so he says, let mesee Lti joest. I can't read this and he's like listen, you GOINGTO, do itjust when you get to these things, you got Ta Hammer Lone the requiredcivability business houndcome. You know this is a competitive account. You gotta just drave this thing home now this... a twenty plus year. A veteran thathad eighty percent of his career was Presidente Club and I'm like all right.I got it. I got and Lik to be practicit Hi's like practicein practic it so yourpracticin it and we go inIn the call and we're in a room. That's probablyonly big enough for two people. We have three people in around table and I getto the business. How comes page- and I start doing exactly like I did in theparking lot and art- doesn't like Ed thing- that I'm doing so, you know wha,he does he reaches over and he grabs my glasses off my face and starts readingtha O now here's the worst quart about it, John, I don't be. I only haveclasses on because I need o now Playa for reading and seeing the screen. Butat the time I was nearsided me a cantsee, parel. Well, art was farsideds e couldn't see near so the Goe were a complete messup. so Ar is nowaggravated to the point that he's going to explode and you know what he does hereaches across the table and he bos the classes off the customers day. Andi'm, like I can't believe H, hedidn't even ask perition and he ttot these don't wor deether right. So theclient, you know t the customer says the customer says fine. Give me theproposal. Customer goes I'll, read the the line, and you tell me what yougowant to tell me, Oh good Lord, to give me the outcome. Give me theoutcome. Yeah now here's the irone of it. We Dod win that deal. We I wen thatto this dey. To this day it was just like it was just like and we were alllike. You know not to say I mean you know. I mean arts little older than Iwas, and I didn't think the custom was a little older than art so, which isyour s three generations of men who and the glasses were going around thetable and I probably stopped I couldn't stop laughing. So that is awesome. Thatis awesome, so art if you're listening. Let us know what, if you did lasic orwhat happened after that. I thought you're going to tell me that you, youwantd, to look older, so you had glasses that had no power in them orwhat Hels Wen he grabbed O. I love that. That's a great one! Dude Hey! So so tell me on that vein. Thinking about you knowgreat sellers, great sales leaders that you work within your career. Like tellme your memory, your best recollection of the best sales person, the bestsales leader. You worked with okay, so his name is a Rickanzalas rickasretired. Now in Atlanta, Georgia and Reckanzalas, Brit Brian and I work forWrick at one point in our career, Rick taught me that everything about sellingwas everything you did up front. He could scope a deal he could attach tothe biggest problems. He taught us that winning and deal was everything you didin the first thirty percent of the deal, how you set up your differentiation,how you set up the outcomes? How you got to highlevel people, I mean writ,knew how to put a deal together. He...

...knew how to negotiate. He knew how tocreate value that didn't cost us anything in negotiation. He taught meeverything that I did was in the beginnings of a sale cycle and it wasall about strategy and then the other thing that he had was. He had a greatsense of empathy and curiosity with customers, regardless of the level hemet with. He made people feel important. I actually learned something from themthat I read which actually became a mantra of Pattimax the other personthat was a powerful influence to me, and I've told this many times duringsales. Trainings was a lady named Mary K and they've heard Mary Kake cosmatics.I never met Mary Ka, but Mary K had a saying for every person you meet inyour life, pretend they have a sign around their neck. That says, make mefeel important. If you do that, you will not only exceed in sales, but lifeand Rick Talkin. That and so that's something ie tried to brand anforcemanagement, both internally and externally. Every day, every personthat I neet I try to make them feel like they're, the most important personin the world. Not I love that. I love that and do you thinking about thelisteners that we have now with all of the? Hopefully we got some good news of youknow coming out of pandemic, but it's been like a long long year and and these ricks they're all around US- and I used to force myself to look around me and lookfor uncommon people and there's a lot of people doing things that I don'twant to replicate and then there's very few the uncommon, the uncommon amongstthe uncommon that you know I wanted to look out for and to replicate some oftheir behaviors there's an old saying. I think that I heard while I was atZerox. I think it says you are you become and sales over time you become aculmination of the best people that you ever worked with or worke for, and it'snot that you're copying people or imitating people or not, not beingauthentic. But it's your you become the manifestation of some of the greatexamples that people have shown to you. So that's off Te Rick out there yet gethim to listen to this too. O Welli'll do that for sure, yeah, hey brother,that takes us to the takes us to a another question that is in the lastquestion. Is We wrap up here? What's the best piece of sales advice at thatyou've ever got that you don't often hear yeah? That's a that's a reallygood question and I'd like to tell it in a story, but I think that so manytimes we as sales professionals- and this is a profession what we do forliving matters, we're really good at I' hard. You say that and it's it's been.It's been pounded into my ears by you...

...for a long time like what we do mattersand I think s as sellers as we look at our opportunities as salesopportunities and there more than that, their business opportunities. It's abusiness opportunity for us is the vendor and also business opportunityfor the prospect and great selling is merging those interests on boath sides,and I think so many times I seesellers try and to figure out how to positiontheir solution as a competitive, dvantage negotiating giving things awaydoing things. I think that a you look at every opportunity is the customerhas a right to say no to you and you know if your pipelines healthy, youhave a right to say oo, the customer to some extent, but Yo, I think we need tolook at it is, is that we've got a new deals that are good for us, our companyand our you know our compensation and we have to make sure the deals areright for R customers from business problems they solve, and one of thebiggest lessons I had was. I was chasing ag firm in Washington DC andwas a big law firm, and I had a champion Ia high ranking champion, andthey sat me down and told me exactly what I needed to win the deal terms andconditions that the managing partner wanted pricing. Everything it was, itwas a total package and I came back and I didn't know if I was Goingta able todo it and I met with my sales manager and my managers like yeah. I think wecan pull this off. We calld this contract, lady, your name is Lynda,fair Chell and you probably heard me talk about Linda and she put togetherthe contract and he decent Gorro office thands. So I drove Er Wer to anotherbuilding, a D. I watched intor office and she does congratulations. Young manand she handed me the document and Hi said: Oh thanks, Linda so much and I'slike you know, as I grasped the document she didn't Lek up and I saidand she's like well, what are you going give me and I sayd well, what do youmean she's like I'm like? Thank you, she's, Lik, tin, Aley, said Thank Yo.What are you going to get for this and I said well, what do you mean and shesays: Well, that's great tat you're getting the deal, but you know youshould be getting something else for this and I see what do you mean she'slike when you just don't give anything Awat right if we're going to give thecustomer something they'e got to give us somethin hit's got to be a you know,a sale is both. Sides of the equation should be winning should be gettingsomething, and I said all right: What do you mean she's like? Well, you justfigure aout what you're going to ask for Eturn and meeting all theseexpectations, and she says as long as you understand, and you think that it'sof equal value in proportion to what you're giving that I'm happy, but I'mnot going to tell you what it that is- and I think so many times that sellersthat you know we sowve real world business problems. We help oriensationsget to places they can't get on their own, and I think we've got to rememberthat and weve got a if we took the attitude that this is a business dealon both sides. We may approach the deal slightly different, but I think to dothat. You got that a healthy higine right, yeah soboy. I love that. I lovethat message. Patty Mak, there's two things that resonate for me in that isthat pipeline cures all else it gives... courage. It gives you it gives youthe ability hat, what I call hold your water in a y sales in a sales engagement and thenthe other thing that Lynda shared with you that just really resonates for me.Is You give you get? Yes, you give you get and there's so many people outthere right now, including me when I was a younger salesperson that Ithought that I, if I gave discounting that I got the deal well,that's not where it stopped, because if I got the deal then they got mysolutions and so that wasn't a good give get. If I give a discount than Iget the deal- and I would always tell you know myself- I'm like give get, Igave the discount. I got the deal. No, that's not what that meant. Not If youdon't believe the value of your solutions, then why should anybody elseexpessially, the professional procurement person I think Linda, isprobably given us alladvice that can last forever. Absolutely if you don'tvalue what you're giving away the person that you're giving it to willknow that, there's more to gift absolutely and that's a bad! THAT'S Abad fil! FOUS! That's a bad deal for us! PATTY MAC!You are an absolute joy! My friend, you are from the day that you came to forcemanagement. I love to tell the story of your initial presentation to us andjust how badly you it was so obvious how badly you wantedto do this and be good at this, and it was so obvious how great you were goingto be- and I know the listeners that have experienced you and I hope thateverybody gets a chance to experience you but you've just been an absolutegodsent to us to me to force management an I can't thank enough. So thanks forGoining, as today, brother Keep Nyou to buddy talk, O aforce management. We'refocused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams, areproven methodologies, deliver programs that build company alignment and fuelrepeatable revenue growth, give your teams the ability to execute the grossstrategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proofis in our results. Let's get started visit us at force. Managementcom you'vebeen listening to the audible, ready podcast to not miss an episodesubscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time.

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