The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode · 1 month ago

Moving Up and Down in Organizations

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Discover the mantra you can use to successfully navigate opportunities that require you to move up and down in organizations. Hear John Kaplan’s tips for continually building a business case that maps the technical capabilities of your solution to the required capabilities for different decision makers in an organization. He explains what the mantra is, how you can build it through customer conversations, and leverage it to get champions to sell on your behalf.

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Most elite sellers I've seen intechnology companies today are the ones who assume their position for therequire capabilities, meet the positive business outcomes and they know thattheir job is to connect those two worlds: You're listening to the audible, ready,podcast, the show that helps you and your teams sell more faster, willfeature sales leader sharing their best insights on how to create a salesengine that helps you feel repeatable revenue growth presented by the team offorced management, a leader in PB sales effect in this. Let's get started hello and welcome to the audible, readysales podcast today we're tackling another topic that came to us from anattend of a recent command of the message. Training John Capel with metoday, John we're talking about how you work your way up and down with anaccounts. It's a great great topic. I'm excited to talk about it with you,Rachel Yeah. This idea is related to a...

...concept, many of our community message.Clients are familiar with, and that's the Monstra for those of you who don'tknow it's really just a simple way of articulating key components of thevalue proposition to the customer, positive business outcomes requiredcapabilities metric. How you do it, how you do it better and your proof pointsJohn. We often call the Monte the ultimate Semita, but it's really it'snot always an end point. It's a framework for you to continually buildthe business case for your solution, yeah. I think it really is. I and Ilove the simplicity of the Mantra, but I also love the effectiveness of it.What I mean by that is, wherever you are there you go. I like that saying,because if I'm thinking about you know making a call on a customer or aprospect, I'm thinking about how I'm going to build the mantra and theMontre components, like you said, the simplicity is there's three things. I'mgoing to take away from every conversation. I want you to think aboutthem as like buckets that I'm filling...

...up with sand and is I'm filling up thebucket to three buckets are positive. Business Outcomes require capabilitiesand Matrix. It's all about the customer. Those are all about the customer, sothose are three things that I'm kind of taking away from the customerconversation and then there's three things: I'm going to deliver to thecustomer, how we do it and that it refers to the required capabilities,how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before. So it'sthat simple motion. It's almost like a golf swing. It's like a takeaway, so Itake away three things from the customer and I deliver three thingsback to a customer. So no matter where you are, it's also called the ultimatesommation, because what we mean by that is, you have to have those threebuckets filled up possible. Is Outcomes require capabilities of metric beforeyou can talk about how we do it, how we do it differently or better and wherewe've done it before, and so it's a really nice simple motion that I reallyreally like yeah. It tends to work...

...really well, because people canvisualize it. You need the backswing. If you're going to swing and hit hitthe ball, the mantra are the specific elements ofthe sales conversation help. You move up in an account and they also gatherthe information you need from lower in the count in the account if you'rebuilding it appropriately yeah. So we use this concept of an M nwand it comes from our great friends at turbonick and they introduced. I loveto. I was at a training with them and they introduced this concept of an mwwhich I really really like. So the M is you know when you start lower in anaccount. So if you just kind of trace an m as an marry, then you start loweran account. You need to go up and then you need to go back down to the managerlevel and then you need to go to the user level and then you need to go backup and your sales conversations. I want you to think about that as kind ofmoving up and down in an account. So...

...them is, you know, starting lower in anorganization and working way up in a w is when you start high and then you golower and you earn the right to go lower in an organization all the waydown to the end user. But you have like a hall pass and so you're coming at theyou know, at the request of the executive or would have you it's atotally different concept than just trying to get to an executive, failingand executive falling down the next level falling down the next level. Soonce you enter doesn't matter where you enter either in an M or a W, eitherhigh or low, it doesn't matter where you enter. It's important that you workyour way through an account gathering the relevant information at the userlevel at the management level and the executive level, and remember you getdelegated to those that you sound like. So when you startt gathering positivebusiness outcomes or require...

...capabilities or metric, they can morphat different levels a lot of times. They get feedback jest, saying, HeyJohn I'm at the user level, and I you know, I'm not connecting people to tothese positive business outcomes. I'm asking people about Positive Soutcoteand I'm not getting much feedback. So you have to understand that theseconversations morph, let me just tell you the bottom line- is your job is toattach to the biggest business issues. He influenced the require capabilitiesand share relevant proof points, and the mantra is the best framework tohelp you stay focused on that yeah, and you know you make a good point aboutstarting low and going up or starting high and going down it's easy to saythat a contact is to the level in account and to pay them no mind, butthe most successful sales people use...

...lower level team members to theiradvantage and prospect accounts yeah. I think that it's totally relevant, pointand pieces of the mantra are useful at helping you get to the next level, nomatter where you are up or down, and you know you need to think about themantra and think about you know what I've seen the most successful sellersdo is no matter where they are in an Merw. They are using these pieces ofthe mantra to help them connect ultimately to the most powerful valueproposition that they can so use the mantra to help your contacts betterposition themselves in their own company. Just like we were just talkingabout. You can use the mantra as a way to get people emotionally connected.Sometimes what happens in some of these technology companies as when the ITorganization is trying to align to the lines of business? Sometimes they'velost their own emotional connection to what they do for a living matters, andso, when you are looking at...

...technical required capabilities and youare connecting them to line of business business outcomes, you are doing amassive effect of you know: Effectiveness for your your companiesthat you're calling on, because that's actually one of the biggest problems orchallenges that they face. So you can help people with this mantra. You canhelp people connect themselves to their own challenges or gaps inside their owncompany yeah. It affected the Montrat having a great summation of all thesecritical elements to the deal is it builds momentum and it builds momentumaround your solution. It fosters momentum within the account, like yousaid, connecting them to what what they do. Matters John have also heard yousay that it's important to practice the Montor we always say practice, but Ilove to get specific on what you need by that. What am I doing when I'mpracticing the mantra? I just standing in front of my mirror. What do you meanwhen you say that? Well, you know I...

...actually do like. I think it'simportant you'll hear me say this all the time and you know I play it, myhead, so what I hear you saying: Mister missus customer, whoever I'm calling up.You said that these are the positive business outcomes that you're trying toachieve, and I just kind of practiced and say: Wait. I didn't hear him saythat okay, then I have to ask questions about that in order to achieve thesepods to business outcomes, you said that these were the minimum technicalrequired capabilities will wait a second when I hear myself say thatthose aren't highly differentiated for me, so I got some more work to do thereand then you said you were going to measure success this way and if it'snot measurable, if I don't have metrics agree to pound metric with a customer,because today's metrics are tomorrow's proof points then I'm in a little bitof a jam, and so it really keeps me focused that's how I practice it onreal life opportunities and then, when I have the answers to those threebuckets, I pivot. Okay, let me tell you...

...a little bit about how we do that atforce management. Let me tell you how we do it differently or better andwhere we've done it before, and I just kind of test myself so keep it simple.You're building this mantra, you're qualifying its strength, elitecompanies qualify and forecast this way. So I've seen people in a forecastsession or TB say: Hey give me the mantra for x y s the opportunity andthen the rep stands up and says. Okay, these are the positive business.Outcomes are trying to chief and people go all those are too low or wow. What'sthe connection here, the technical required capabilities? Hey are thosehighly differentiated for us. I don't think so. Are they let's get ourtechnical people involved and it's really really powerful. So that's whathe lead companies do. They become voracious qualifiers based on theMancha. You can even forecast that way and you're using it to communicatevalue and differentiation and you're, creating a value story for champions toutilize internally. This Montra I've...

...seen time and time again the mantrathat you create, gets adopted by the champion and becomes that champion'slanguage when they explain when they go to get your solution approved or tocommunicate with others inside the company, because they're activelyselling on your behalf is one of the definitions of a great champion, andyou can do that very simply by teaching them the mantra with their own content.These are the positive business outcomes you told me about. These arethe required capabilities that you told me about. Yes, they are cut championsaying yes, yes, yes, here's how you said you're going to measure success?Yes, yes, yes, okay, here's how we do that at force management, Here's how wedo it different there better and here's a great proof, point or testimonial alot of times a champion will say: Do you have that in a slide? Can you writethat down for me and that's a great...

...great buying signal for a champion e?It simple yeah. You know, I think it's important to remember, and you knowwe're all we've all we're all biased to various solutions, but there's a lot ofnoise out there right and your prospects are dealing with a lot ofnoise and may be dealing with noise from other vendors they've got stuffgoing on. They have a hundred emails in their inbox, their slacks going offevery ten seconds right. So when you say keep it simple, it's really reallytrue, because the reason the Matra works that were articulating thesecomponents of the deal is it. The Mont effectively explains the connectionbetween the business problem and your solution. It makes it really clear and,like you said John, if your prospect, your customer hears it enough times,they will reach their own conclusions without you having to force a solutionor do persuasion and convincing, and you know beating your chest too much.It makes that clear link makes that...

...link clear for them. Yeah I like toespecially with technology companies I love kind of given them some spirit andsay when you see you know the mantra I say put both feet. You'll hear me saythis: A lot of times put both feet on the ground and put both feet in twocamps, so one is in the required capabilities and the others, and thepositive business out comes the most elite sellers. I've seen in technologycompanies today are the ones who assume their position where the requiredcapabilities meet the positive business out comes, and they know that their jobis to connect those two worlds, because in the top top one to three problems orchallenges that cios experience, it's always about a lining it with thebusiness. So by the very nature, the mantra by the very nature, with theconnection between required capabilities and positive businessoutcomes, is the great place where you need to be. Let me tell you theopposite of that too many times, people...

...hide out in the required capabilitiesand they do a great job technically, but they don't connect it to positivebusiness outcomes and therefore you don't have urgency. Therefore, youdon't have access to funds. Therefore, you don't have access to power andinfluence, because you're not swimming around the positive business outcomes,and so what I love about it is is assume your position stand with bothfeet on the ground and both feet. In can you know one foot and the requiredcapabilities camp and one foot in the possibles outcome camp, and you will bea linkage between your clients and some of the struggles that they have doing.The very same thing. Oh that's great. I assume the position and I think thanksso much for joining me. For this conversation, John, my pleasure yeah. Iknow a lot of you are going to get a lot out of that and because this topichas come up so much with so many of our listeners, I'm glad that we could coverit today. Thank you to all of you for continuing to listen to the audible,ready sales podcast at force management.

We're focused on transforming salesorganizations into elite teams are proven methodologies, deliver programsthat build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth, give yourteams the ability to execute the gross strategy at the point of sale. Ourstrength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get startedvisit us at force. Management Com. You've been listening to the audible,ready podcast to not miss an episode subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player until next time.

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