The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

Moving Up and Down in Organizations

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Discover the mantra you can use to successfully navigate opportunities that require you to move up and down in organizations. Hear John Kaplan’s tips for continually building a business case that maps the technical capabilities of your solution to the required capabilities for different decision makers in an organization. He explains what the mantra is, how you can build it through customer conversations, and leverage it to get champions to sell on your behalf.

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Most elite sellers I've seen in technologycompanies today are the ones who assume their position for the required capabilities meet thepositive business outcomes, and they know that their job is to connect those twoworlds. You're listening to the audible ready podcast, the show that helps youand your team's sell more faster. will feature sales leader sharing their best insightson how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth,presented by the team afforce management, a leader in BTB sales effectiveness. Let'sget started. Hello and welcome to the audible ready sales podcast. Today we'retackling another topic that came to us from an attendee of a recent command ofthe message training. John Kappa. With me today, John. We're talkingabout how you work your way up and down with an accounts it's a great, great topic. I'm excited to talk about it with your Rachel. Yeah, this idea is related to a concept...

...many of our command of the messageclients are familiar with, and that's the mantra. For those of you whodon't know, it's really just a simple way of articulating key components of thevalue proposition to the customer. Positive business outcomes required, capabilities, metrics,how you do it, how you do it better and your proof points.John, we often call the mantra the ultimate summation, but it's really it'snot always an endpoint. It's a frame work for you to continually build thebusiness case for your solution. Yeah, I think it really is. Iand I love the simplicity of the Mantra, but I also love the effectiveness ofit, and what I mean by that is wherever you are, thereyou go. I like that saying because if I'm thinking about, you know, making a call on a customer or a prospect, I'm thinking about howI'm going to build the mantra, in the mantra components. Like you said, the simplicity is there's three things I'm going to take away from every conversation. I want you to think about them...

...as like buckets that I'm filling upwith sand and as I'm filling up the buckets, those three buckets are positivebusiness outcomes require capabilities and metrics. It's all about the customer. Those areall about the customer. So those are three things that I'm kind of takingaway from the customer conversation and then there's three things I'm going to deliver tothe customer. How we do it and the it refers to the require capabilities, how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before.So it's that simple motion. It's almost like a golf swing. It's likea takeaway. So I take away three things from the customer and I deliverthree things back to a customer. So, no matter where you are, it'salso called the ultimate summation, because what we mean by that is youhave to have those three buckets filled up, positive outcomes, required capabilities and metricsbefore you can talk about how we do it, how we do itdifferently or better and where we've done it before. And so it's a reallynice simple motion that I really, really...

...like. Yeah, it tends towork really well because people can visualize that you need the backswing if you're goingto swing and hit hit the ball. Yeah, the mantra are those specificelements of the sales conversation help you move up in an account and they alsogather information you need from lower in account in the accounting if you're building itappropriately. Yeah, so we use this concept of an M and W and. It comes from our great friends that Turbo Nomic, and they introduce Ilove the I was at a training with them and they introduce this concept ofan M and W, which I really, really like. So the M is, you know, when you start lower in an account. So ifyou just kind of trace an M as and Mary, then you start lowerin account, you need to go up and then you need to go backdown to the manager level and then you need to go to the user leveland then you need to go back up in your sales conversations. I wantyou to think about that as kind of moving up and down in an account. So the M is, you know,...

...starting lower in an organization and workingway up. In a W is when you start high and then yougo lower and you earn the right to go lower in an organization all theway down to the end user. But you have like a hall pass andso you're coming at the you know, at the request of the executive orwhat happen. And it's a totally concept than just trying to get to anexecutive, failing and executive falling down the next level, falling down the nextlevel. So once you enter, doesn't matter where you enter either in anM or a w either high or low. It doesn't matter where you enter.It's important that you work your way through an account gathering the relevant informationat the user level, at the management level and the executive level. Andremember you get delegated to those that you sound like. So when you startgathering positive business outcomes or require capabilities or...

...metrics, they can morph at differentlevels. A lot of times I get feedback. They're saying, Hey,John, I'm at the user level and I you know, I'm not connectingpeople to to these positive business outcomes. I'm asking people about positives outcomes andI'm not getting much feedback. So you have to understand that these conversations morph. Let me just tell you. The bottom line is your job is toattach to the biggest business issues, influence the require capabilities and share relevant proofpoints, and the mantra is the best framework to help you stay focused onthat. Yeah, and you know, you make a good point about startinglow and going up or starting high and going down. It's easy to saythat are contact is to the level in accounted to and to pay them nomind, but the most successful salespeople use...

...lower level team members to their advantageand prospect accounts. Yeah, I think that it's totally relevant point and piecesof the mantra are useful at helping you get to the next level, nomatter where you are, up or down, and you know you need to thinkabout the mantra and think about you know, what I've seen the mostsuccessful sellers do is, no matter where they are in an MW, theyare using these pieces of the mantra to help them connect ultimately to the mostpowerful value proposition that they can. So use the mantra to help your contactsbetter position themselves in their own company, just like we were just talking about. You can use the mantra as a way to get people emotionally connected.Sometimes it happens in some of these technology companies is when the IT organization istrying to align to the lines of business, sometimes they've lost their own emotional connectionto what they do for a living. Matters. And so when you arelooking at technical required capabilities and you...

...are connecting them to line of businessbusiness outcomes, you are doing a massive effective, you know, effectiveness foryour your companies that you're calling on, because that's actually one of the biggestproblems or challenges that they face. So you can help people with this mantra. You can help people connect themselves to their own challenges or gaps inside theirown company. Yeah, it affected it. The mantra and having a great summationof all these critical elements to the deal is it builds momentum and itbuilds momentum around your solution. It fosters momentum within the account like you said, connecting them to what what they do matters. John, I also heardyou say that it's important to practice the mantra. We always say practice,but I love to get specific on what you mean by that. What amI doing when I'm practicing the mantra and my just standing in front of mymirror? What do you mean when you say that? Well, I youknow, I actually do like I think...

...it's important. You'll hear me saythis all the time and you know I play at my head. So whatI hear you saying, Mr and Mrs Customer, whoever I'm calling on,you said that these are the positive business outcomes that you're trying to achieve,and I just kind of practice and say, wait, I didn't hear him saythat. Okay, then I have to ask questions about that. Inorder to achieve these positive business outcomes. You said that these were the minimumtechnical required capabilities. Will wait a second when I hear myself say that thosearen't highly differentiated for me. So I got some more work to do there. And then you said you were going to measure success this way. Andif it's not measurable, if I don't have metrics agreed upon, metrics witha customer, because today's metrics or tomorrow's proof points, then I'm in alittle bit of a jam. And so it really keeps me focus. That'show I practice it on real, live opportunities and then when I have theanswers to those three buckets, I pivot. Okay, let me tell you alittle bit about how we do that...

...at force management. Let me tellyou how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before,and I just kind of test myself. So keep it simple. You're buildingthis mantra, you're qualifying its strength. Elite companies qualify and forecast this way. So I've seen people in a forecast session or Qbr say hey, giveme the mantra for XYZ opportunity and then the REP stands up and says okay, these are the postive business outcomes are trying to achieve, and people goall those are too low or wow, what's the connection here? The technicalrequire capabilities. Hey, are those highly differentiated for us? I don't thinkso, are they? Let's get our technical people involved, and it's really, really powerful. So that's what elite companies do. They become veracious qualifiersbased on the mantra. You can even forecast that way, and you're usingit to communicate value and differentiation and you're creating a value story for champions toutilize internally. This mantra, I've seen...

...time and time again, the mantrathat you create gets adopted by the champion and becomes that champions language when theyexplain when they to get your solution approved or to communicate with others inside thecompany, because they're actively selling on your behalf. Is One of the definitionsof a great champion, and you can do that very simply by teaching themthe mantra with their own content. These are the positive business outcomes you toldme about. These are the required capabilities that you told me about. Yes, they are custom champion saying yes, yes, yes. Here's how yousaid you're going to measure success. Yes, yes, yes, okay. Here'show we do that at force management. Here's how we do it different,near better and here's a great proof pointer, testimonial. A lot oftimes a champion will say, do you have that in a slide? Canyou write that down for me? And that's a great, great buying signalfor a champion. Keep it simple.

Yeah, you know, I thinkit's important to remember and you know, we're all we've all we're all buyersto various solutions, but there's a lot of noise out there, right,and your prospects are dealing with a lot of noise. You may be dealingwith noise from other vendors. They've got stuff going on, they have ahundred emails in their inbox, their slacks going off every ten seconds, right. So when you say keep it simple, it's really, really true, becausethe reason the mantra works, or articulating these components of the deal isit the mantra effectively explains the connection between the business problem and your solution.It makes it really clear and, like you said, Johnny, if yourprospect, your customer, hears it enough times, they will reach their ownconclusions. Without you having to force a solution or do persuasion and convincing and, you know, beating your chest too much. It makes that clear link, makes that link clear for them.

Yeah, I like to especially withtechnology companies. I love kind of giving them some spirit and say when yousee you know the mantra. I say, put both feet you'll hear me saythis a lot of times. Put both feet on the ground and putboth feet into camps. So one is in the required capabilities and the othersand the positive business outcomes. Most elite sellers I've seen in technology companies todayare the ones who assume their position where the required capabilities meet the positive businessoutcomes and they know that their job is to connect those two worlds because inthe top, top one the three problems or challenges that CIO's experience, it'salways about aligning it with the business. So by the very nature the mantra, by the very nature with the connection between required capabilities and positive business outcomes, is the great place where you need to be. Let me tell youthe opposite of that. Too many times...

...people hide out in the required capabilitiesand they do a great job technically, but they don't connect it to positivebusiness outcomes and therefore you don't have urgency. Therefore, you don't have access toons, therefore you don't have access to power and influence because you're notswimming around the positive business outcomes. And so what I love about it isis assume your position, stand with both feet on the ground and both feetin, can't you know, one foot and the require capabilities camp and onefoot in the POSITIB business outcome camp, and you will be a linkage betweenyour clients and some of the struggles that they have doing the very same thing. That's great. I assume the position. Thank you. Thanks so much forjoining me for this conversation. John, my pleasure. Yeah, I knowa lot of you are going to get a lot out of that andbecause this topic has come up so much for so many of our listeners andgold that we could cover it today. Thank you to all of you forcontinuing to listen to the audible ready sales...

...podcast. At force management, we'refocused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Are Proven methodologies deliver programs that buildcompany alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to executethe growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit US atforce MANAGEMENTCOM. You've been listening to the audible ready podcast. To not missan episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until nexttime,.

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