The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

Moving Up and Down in Organizations

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Discover the mantra you can use to successfully navigate opportunities that require you to move up and down in organizations. Hear John Kaplan’s tips for continually building a business case that maps the technical capabilities of your solution to the required capabilities for different decision makers in an organization. He explains what the mantra is, how you can build it through customer conversations, and leverage it to get champions to sell on your behalf.

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Most elite sellers I've seen in technology companies today are the ones who assume their position for the required capabilities meet the positive business outcomes, and they know that their job is to connect those two worlds. You're listening to the audible ready podcast, the show that helps you and your team's sell more faster. will feature sales leader sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth, presented by the team afforce management, a leader in BTB sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to the audible ready sales podcast. Today we're tackling another topic that came to us from an attendee of a recent command of the message training. John Kappa. With me today, John. We're talking about how you work your way up and down with an accounts it's a great, great topic. I'm excited to talk about it with your Rachel. Yeah, this idea is related to a concept...

...many of our command of the message clients are familiar with, and that's the mantra. For those of you who don't know, it's really just a simple way of articulating key components of the value proposition to the customer. Positive business outcomes required, capabilities, metrics, how you do it, how you do it better and your proof points. John, we often call the mantra the ultimate summation, but it's really it's not always an endpoint. It's a frame work for you to continually build the business case for your solution. Yeah, I think it really is. I and I love the simplicity of the Mantra, but I also love the effectiveness of it, and what I mean by that is wherever you are, there you go. I like that saying because if I'm thinking about, you know, making a call on a customer or a prospect, I'm thinking about how I'm going to build the mantra, in the mantra components. Like you said, the simplicity is there's three things I'm going to take away from every conversation. I want you to think about them...

...as like buckets that I'm filling up with sand and as I'm filling up the buckets, those three buckets are positive business outcomes require capabilities and metrics. It's all about the customer. Those are all about the customer. So those are three things that I'm kind of taking away from the customer conversation and then there's three things I'm going to deliver to the customer. How we do it and the it refers to the require capabilities, how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before. So it's that simple motion. It's almost like a golf swing. It's like a takeaway. So I take away three things from the customer and I deliver three things back to a customer. So, no matter where you are, it's also called the ultimate summation, because what we mean by that is you have to have those three buckets filled up, positive outcomes, required capabilities and metrics before you can talk about how we do it, how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before. And so it's a really nice simple motion that I really, really...

...like. Yeah, it tends to work really well because people can visualize that you need the backswing if you're going to swing and hit hit the ball. Yeah, the mantra are those specific elements of the sales conversation help you move up in an account and they also gather information you need from lower in account in the accounting if you're building it appropriately. Yeah, so we use this concept of an M and W and. It comes from our great friends that Turbo Nomic, and they introduce I love the I was at a training with them and they introduce this concept of an M and W, which I really, really like. So the M is, you know, when you start lower in an account. So if you just kind of trace an M as and Mary, then you start lower in account, you need to go up and then you need to go back down to the manager level and then you need to go to the user level and then you need to go back up in your sales conversations. I want you to think about that as kind of moving up and down in an account. So the M is, you know,...

...starting lower in an organization and working way up. In a W is when you start high and then you go lower and you earn the right to go lower in an organization all the way down to the end user. But you have like a hall pass and so you're coming at the you know, at the request of the executive or what happen. And it's a totally concept than just trying to get to an executive, failing and executive falling down the next level, falling down the next level. So once you enter, doesn't matter where you enter either in an M or a w either high or low. It doesn't matter where you enter. It's important that you work your way through an account gathering the relevant information at the user level, at the management level and the executive level. And remember you get delegated to those that you sound like. So when you start gathering positive business outcomes or require capabilities or...

...metrics, they can morph at different levels. A lot of times I get feedback. They're saying, Hey, John, I'm at the user level and I you know, I'm not connecting people to to these positive business outcomes. I'm asking people about positives outcomes and I'm not getting much feedback. So you have to understand that these conversations morph. Let me just tell you. The bottom line is your job is to attach to the biggest business issues, influence the require capabilities and share relevant proof points, and the mantra is the best framework to help you stay focused on that. Yeah, and you know, you make a good point about starting low and going up or starting high and going down. It's easy to say that are contact is to the level in accounted to and to pay them no mind, but the most successful salespeople use...

...lower level team members to their advantage and prospect accounts. Yeah, I think that it's totally relevant point and pieces of the mantra are useful at helping you get to the next level, no matter where you are, up or down, and you know you need to think about the mantra and think about you know, what I've seen the most successful sellers do is, no matter where they are in an MW, they are using these pieces of the mantra to help them connect ultimately to the most powerful value proposition that they can. So use the mantra to help your contacts better position themselves in their own company, just like we were just talking about. You can use the mantra as a way to get people emotionally connected. Sometimes it happens in some of these technology companies is when the IT organization is trying to align to the lines of business, sometimes they've lost their own emotional connection to what they do for a living. Matters. And so when you are looking at technical required capabilities and you...

...are connecting them to line of business business outcomes, you are doing a massive effective, you know, effectiveness for your your companies that you're calling on, because that's actually one of the biggest problems or challenges that they face. So you can help people with this mantra. You can help people connect themselves to their own challenges or gaps inside their own company. Yeah, it affected it. The mantra and having a great summation of all these critical elements to the deal is it builds momentum and it builds momentum around your solution. It fosters momentum within the account like you said, connecting them to what what they do matters. John, I also heard you say that it's important to practice the mantra. We always say practice, but I love to get specific on what you mean by that. What am I doing when I'm practicing the mantra and my just standing in front of my mirror? What do you mean when you say that? Well, I you know, I actually do like I think...

...it's important. You'll hear me say this all the time and you know I play at my head. So what I hear you saying, Mr and Mrs Customer, whoever I'm calling on, you said that these are the positive business outcomes that you're trying to achieve, and I just kind of practice and say, wait, I didn't hear him say that. Okay, then I have to ask questions about that. In order to achieve these positive business outcomes. You said that these were the minimum technical required capabilities. Will wait a second when I hear myself say that those aren't highly differentiated for me. So I got some more work to do there. And then you said you were going to measure success this way. And if it's not measurable, if I don't have metrics agreed upon, metrics with a customer, because today's metrics or tomorrow's proof points, then I'm in a little bit of a jam. And so it really keeps me focus. That's how I practice it on real, live opportunities and then when I have the answers to those three buckets, I pivot. Okay, let me tell you a little bit about how we do that...

...at force management. Let me tell you how we do it differently or better and where we've done it before, and I just kind of test myself. So keep it simple. You're building this mantra, you're qualifying its strength. Elite companies qualify and forecast this way. So I've seen people in a forecast session or Qbr say hey, give me the mantra for XYZ opportunity and then the REP stands up and says okay, these are the postive business outcomes are trying to achieve, and people go all those are too low or wow, what's the connection here? The technical require capabilities. Hey, are those highly differentiated for us? I don't think so, are they? Let's get our technical people involved, and it's really, really powerful. So that's what elite companies do. They become veracious qualifiers based on the mantra. You can even forecast that way, and you're using it to communicate value and differentiation and you're creating a value story for champions to utilize internally. This mantra, I've seen...

...time and time again, the mantra that you create gets adopted by the champion and becomes that champions language when they explain when they to get your solution approved or to communicate with others inside the company, because they're actively selling on your behalf. Is One of the definitions of a great champion, and you can do that very simply by teaching them the mantra with their own content. These are the positive business outcomes you told me about. These are the required capabilities that you told me about. Yes, they are custom champion saying yes, yes, yes. Here's how you said you're going to measure success. Yes, yes, yes, okay. Here's how we do that at force management. Here's how we do it different, near better and here's a great proof pointer, testimonial. A lot of times a champion will say, do you have that in a slide? Can you write that down for me? And that's a great, great buying signal for a champion. Keep it simple.

Yeah, you know, I think it's important to remember and you know, we're all we've all we're all buyers to various solutions, but there's a lot of noise out there, right, and your prospects are dealing with a lot of noise. You may be dealing with noise from other vendors. They've got stuff going on, they have a hundred emails in their inbox, their slacks going off every ten seconds, right. So when you say keep it simple, it's really, really true, because the reason the mantra works, or articulating these components of the deal is it the mantra effectively explains the connection between the business problem and your solution. It makes it really clear and, like you said, Johnny, if your prospect, your customer, hears it enough times, they will reach their own conclusions. Without you having to force a solution or do persuasion and convincing and, you know, beating your chest too much. It makes that clear link, makes that link clear for them.

Yeah, I like to especially with technology companies. I love kind of giving them some spirit and say when you see you know the mantra. I say, put both feet you'll hear me say this a lot of times. Put both feet on the ground and put both feet into camps. So one is in the required capabilities and the others and the positive business outcomes. Most elite sellers I've seen in technology companies today are the ones who assume their position where the required capabilities meet the positive business outcomes and they know that their job is to connect those two worlds because in the top, top one the three problems or challenges that CIO's experience, it's always about aligning it with the business. So by the very nature the mantra, by the very nature with the connection between required capabilities and positive business outcomes, is the great place where you need to be. Let me tell you the opposite of that. Too many times...

...people hide out in the required capabilities and they do a great job technically, but they don't connect it to positive business outcomes and therefore you don't have urgency. Therefore, you don't have access to ons, therefore you don't have access to power and influence because you're not swimming around the positive business outcomes. And so what I love about it is is assume your position, stand with both feet on the ground and both feet in, can't you know, one foot and the require capabilities camp and one foot in the POSITIB business outcome camp, and you will be a linkage between your clients and some of the struggles that they have doing the very same thing. That's great. I assume the position. Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me for this conversation. John, my pleasure. Yeah, I know a lot of you are going to get a lot out of that and because this topic has come up so much for so many of our listeners and gold that we could cover it today. Thank you to all of you for continuing to listen to the audible ready sales...

...podcast. At force management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Are Proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit US at force MANAGEMENTCOM. You've been listening to the audible ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time,.

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