The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode · 9 months ago

Responding to a RFP

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Responding to RFPs is often inevitable in many selling organizations. How do you respond in a way that gives you an edge? Brian Walsh joins us to share the importance of assessing your position and details how to determine an impactful response. He covers what to ask yourself as you qualify the opportunity, define your competitive position, and strategize around the right next steps. 

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We had no issue looking someone in the eye and saying, hold on a minute, we do these things really well. But you tell me what on this list is an important for you and we'll take it off. You're listening to the audible ready podcast, the show that helps you and your team's sell more faster. Will feat your sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth, presented by the team if force management, a leader in BTB sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hello and welcome to the audible ready sales podcast. I'd Rachel Clup Miller. Today we are going to talk about our FPS, responding to them in a way that puts you in a favorable position. Joining me today is our own Brian Walsh. Hi Brian, Hi Rachel, how are you good? Good, happy to have you here today. It is always my pleasure. I love talking with you about this stuff. Awesome and and I we've talked about it before. It's a big topic. We could probably do a whole hour on this on this topic, and we'll dive into some different nuances about the RFP today, but really the first assumption is that if you're getting an RFP, you're likely a little late to the party. Well, yeah, I mean, and I think that's the traditional concern, right and as you and I have talked already a little bit previous today, the definition of an RFP has probably changed in the in a way in that, you know, in the old days people would come to the table having some set of expertise internally or maybe they've engaged a consultant or maybe they've already worked with the vendor and they've written in our FP. There's so much more information out there now that it's almost as if every time an interaction starts with the customer coming to us with some interest, you know they've done all some research on their own. So even that is like a verbal form of the RFP. And and what I would I think, and it just hid me as you as you said it, and I could I agree with the assumption, but it's almost as if getting in ourfp maybe we should be thinking of it as like an invitation to the party. Okay, and it's like the question now is, is this a party I want to go to, and is it a party I want to like step in, take a look around and get the heck out of or is it a party I want to go to it actually participate in? Maybe that's a just a little shift on the on the on the concept, because there are, you know, three or four big things that I got to understand. How did they get here? Did they get here on their own or the get do they have already already have some help? Are they using the Internet and doing all their own research, whatever that might be? And then for us it's getting an understanding, you know if it's a written ourp or it's a verbal conversation, and just listening and or fully reading it to better understand what's happening so that you can assess your position before...

...you try to improve your position right and determine your response. And I have to tell you, as I was thinking about it this morning before we got on the call, I was reminded of some of the greatest strategists I was lucky enough to work with, and I think about, you know, just names, no one that's going to know, but Dan on Nutskin, becky Mitchell and at Tom Tom Growl, who is might be recognized when Anka to Tom is the uncle of rock and roll as Dave Growl, but Tom Growl was one of my mentors. So those three names for mentors of mine at a sales rep and one of the things all three of them had a common was this ability to really assess our position and it to include a case like this where there's a live deal on the table that we've been invited to participate in. And for them it was all about strategy first, not just all we got something, let's go run to act. It was about really assessing what is this thing that we've been invited to all about, and how do we figure out do we belong? How do we influence it before we just run with some set of the answers? Yeah, there's a lot of great things that you've teat up in those opening comments, and I was reminded of myself. You know, if you think about when you call a vendor looking for a solution, there's already been a lot happening internally before you get to that point. I mean yet you, I mean you, you sit on that side of the desk. You know. Yeah, it's never the first move right, right. So you talked about strategy and really assessing your position. That's sort of that internal work that needs to be done, but then the question is, how do you determine a great response, because that next step of what you do, influenced by the strategy is, can really go a lot of different ways and you have to be strategic about that response. Yeah, so, you know, I should probably preface the rest of what I'm going to say at today's podcast with I am the not the lone expert. Right. I just want to make sure because I'm afraid that somebody might hear someone going to say and they'll say things like well, what about or yeah, that works in this situation. And you know, as you said, we could talk about this concept for an hour. Yes, but I do think there's a couple of things you have to do, and I kind of mentioned in Minigo. When I look at invitation, because that's really what this is, I got to ask myself, is this a party I'm even interested in attending? And that should come from your knowledge of the account in the political landscape and study account the relationships you do have or don't have. It goes back to the concept of account strategy and planning. Have we been working on this account to develop champions, or at least coaches and those kinds of things, or is this a cold opportunity for us that that's the first thing. And then inside of that, I think you've got to have a willingness. If you decide you're going to try to participate, you have to have a willingness. Or maybe it's a point of view that just says,...

...listen, whether this customer buys from us or not is not the first question to answer. The first question answer is what does good really look like? Now I'm going to sound like a brokenrect because I talk about this all the time, but my job is to help the customer to find what good looks like so that we can look at that from both sides of the desk and I can start to answer the question before the customer even does. Am I a good fit for that? Because if I've really helped you think through what good looks like and we've landed on what good looks like for you and your organization, it then should become obvious to me and my team. Are we a good potential fit for this set of outcomes and what it takes to get to those outcomes? So I should be qualifying this opportunity in that way first, before I start thinking about what can I compete against other offerings that it might already be at the table. Take that out of the equation, because that cloud your vision. That gets you focused on getting the win over the competition, versus defining and and and anchoring, a temkatoism which I love, right, anchoring the conversation in the problems we're trying to help you solve and, more importantly, in my mind, the outcomes trying to help you drive. I think he got US start there. You got to have the willingness, you know, to make the customer ear your expertise a little bit when it comes to your product and your solutions. Right, because you know, while probably you're going to say something, I think it. No, no, I think it's her it's your point. It's about the outcomes and they know where they want to get to and they think they have the solution requirements. But it's kind of your job to tryangulate the truth there and make sure that that path is really going to get them to the outcomes. Yeah, want to achieve. Right. Yeah, because I think you know it's the idea that you if you can anchor the conversation in, you on and we all have our own style. My style is to try to help the customer realize it. Look, you know you want me to talk about me and how we how we can address this URFP or this list of requirements. The problem is, I could talk about me for hours on end. I need enough context to make sure that what I'm about to say about me actually alliance with where you're trying to go. So, I mean, I get it. I'm going to honor the required capabilities you come to the table with, but my first responsibility, I think, is to get some things on the table that you may not have thought about yet, or you may not have thought about fully yet, in order to expand the universe of what's important for you to think about right beef before, because I think this is all about, and this is my mindset when I say this, I think this is all about the customer getting to a great outcome and and and to your point, about triangulating the truth. So I'm not only trying to trangulate the truth about that. What is really a great outcome and what's truly required to get there, and if you really thought about all of that, and if you really thought about all of that with depths. But the other thing I'm trying to do is. I'm trying to qualify you right. I mean, you're...

...the one who invited me to this party. Do I want to spend time with you? Are you worth spending time with? And you know, because it's the old you know, a third, a three, three, even what, even when the owner organization as an URFP INDER Way, I'm of the strong belief that a third of the people involved in that URFP are the ones actually sponsoring it. They want to see some change, they're going to put their names on it. A third of the people, you know, they're all along for the ride. They'll, they'll, they're all in for the change, but they're not going to put their name on it, they don't want to own it. And then there's a third of the people who are praying to God this thing doesn't happen because it's going to change their life. They don't want it right. And My only point is I'm constantly trying to triangulate who am I in front of? Am I talking to? Which one of those three people am I talking to? And if I find myself on that third person's office, I'm not suggesting that that data point alone means I qualify me and my team out of the deal, but I probably does qualify me out of their office. Hey, right, so all of these data points matter, but it does. I think I'll go back to first and foremost. You have to anchor the conversation in what are you really trying to solve for? Because if you can get that door open about what are the outcomes trying to achieve, it's easier to start talking through require capabilities of at a deeper level. It's all so easier to pull them back and say, well, how did we even get there? A problem where we're trying to solve for? Yeah, and focusing on the outcomes is a really easy way to make it buy are focused, the conversation, are focus rights, yeah, and and and by focusing on the outcomes, it's another way to qualify the person you're in front of. Tactical buyer, economic buyer, coach, potential champion, potential enemy, someone who cares, someone is long for the ride, someone who doesn't care. I mean, all of those things start to become a little bit clearer so that you can then come back and start to make some educated decisions, not on the final outcome. Are we going to are we going to participate or not? But what's our strategy to then go forward? Right, you're next your next steps? Yeah, as you're triangulating the truth and listening to them talking about outcomes and and solution requirements, the other thing you're assessing is there a competitor already in there? Are we behind as it relates to our competition? Yeah, and and and as a result, again, it's another strategy moment. What's the competitive strategy we need to play into here, because if some competitors already got relationship and there's already built some differentiation into the conversation, me trying to meet them directly on the battlefield is probably not going to be the best of ideas. I'm going to have to either. And I think you got to both of these to make the strategy work. I'm going to take a step back and ask yourself, is this a flanking opportunity or a fragmenting opportunity? Can I plank the deal with additional differentiation? Be that I have that is important to getting the outcomes and even but that's only going to work if I've also got relationship right, I've got some credibility in the account and then, secondarily, or do I fragment it. So I look at this large deal and go this thing...

...set up seventy five percent of it for the competition already, and that makes perfect sense, but this twenty five percent over here we do really well. How do I maybe pull that piece of the deal out like that's a that's like a real serious competitive strategy conversation. That should be happening early if something's coming to us and we can already tell other people are engaged. Yeah, here's the here's the other thing too, when you think about the people. If you've got a third party involved, like a consultant, which it happened, which is happening more and more, right in certain industries. That's been happening in other industries for a long time. But if you got a consult in the room, you've got to be start back yourselves some questions about that. What does that relationship mean to the customer? How does that consultant get paid? Right? What is their objective, which is, you know, often not totally aligned? Their objective is to save money, right, because that's how they get paid, to give a percentage of cost savings, and this the d purchasing is aligned with that to one extent or another. And then the line of businesses doesn't even isn't even aware of that relationship. They've got a responsibility to the customer base or to the patient or whatever market place. You know, vertical market I'm in. So then you got to start to triangulate all of that. There's a lot more than just Oh, you want these ten requirements. Let me tell you how we do it right, right, because really this are off an RFP verbal however it comes to you, is an opportunity and you have to decide what you're going to do to it at those key questions, asking your customer what outcomes you're trying to drive. How, and then how are you going to ensure that your requirements actually drive those? And you know you're sort of circling around this other point with the URF P. That can be a little bit of a dance that when you decide this isn't for us and you need to walk away, that is not always easy, especially if there's an established relationship there. Yeah, so let's talk about the walking away side and then we'll talk about the what about going all inside? Right, so, but on you're on your question. The constant, devated and gratefully. I think this is really in and of itself, a really important skill set, right, because we've all seen this go really bad, like I remember. No names please, right, we will protect protect the guilty. But I remember getting a phone call from a fortune five Onezero, I think, for five hundred client and it was the administrative aid for the CEO and we had responded to an RFP and midway through we got cut. So we didn't we didn't walk away, but we got cut. But this is close. The Rep shows, without any agreement from anybody else, the account of it on the on the account chose to send the CEO a letter letting the CEO know how awful his team was in no ad certain terms, and obviously I had no idea about it. No, nor did anyone else, but I'm the one who got the call from the...

CEO's office and of course, of course, you know, I immediately took responsibility and apologized and he was happy that I was willing to, you know, own it and you know we walked away having a good conversation. But you know, there's a way to egg it gracefully, you know, and whether it's midway through the rap when you think you're about to lose or it's early on and you're seeing yourself. I don't think we belong in this one. As much as we'd like to compete. If this was a brand new opportunity, maybe we could better influence it, but these require capabilities are already set up for somebody else, etcetera. Etce, you have got to find a way to exit gracefully and live to fight another day and again. Even that is a skill and I dream how you do that again. It goes back to strategy. It goes back to in one account, we just might be able to call somebody up and say, listen, Rachel, we've known you a long time. The reality is we already know that, like you, and I maybe so tight that I can say Rachel, reality is this is clearly already been written for ex competitor, and that's okay. If that's if that's where this is headed. Those things happen and if we can't influence it, let's just move on. Right. In other cases it might require a more formal response. We used to do a lot of this kind of thing, where we would look at an URP and say, hey, if it had the following couple of outcomes in it and or the following couple required capabilities, we could potentially play, and so we would send a letter and just stay very, very kindly. Hey, based on your RP, it looks like this is where you're headed. We believe that there's some conversations around the following outcome and or required capabilities that need to be had. If you if you'd like to have those, we are a potential player. If not, that's okay, but we're probably we're not going to play because we don't, you know, just doesn't make sense that that's probably the wrong language, which you get the point, and what I find interesting is you would immediately find some things out. Those conversations on one of the spectrum or somewhere in the middle would immediately tell you. If your gut is correct, you might. It wasn't all the time, but more frequently than people might think. We would get a response to the verbal conversation, and I just walked it through, or the written conversation. I gave an example of that. Would say Wa, Wa, wait a minute, come on here, come in here and talk to us about that stuff. Okay, again, it does. It didn't mean we were going to stay in the deal, but it did give us the opportunity to go in and try to influence and I better understand, so that we could look the cuts in the eye, often in that very moment, and say, okay, based on this conversation, we're all in, or, based on this conversation, we're clearly not the right fit. And and, by the way, here's what we think you might want to do. You might want to call these people like, especially, I'll laughing because especially, like if this was already wound for one competitor. We didn't want to make it easy for the competition. We you know.

So if we knew somebody else who could make their life difficult, whether they win or not, and and and, like an honest competitor for the you know, for the customer to consider, we say, you know, you should do you should call those folks over at because there are another group that might be able to do this really, really well. You know that kind of thing. Again, I'm doing this with the customers best interest in mine, but I'm also trying to make life a little more difficult for one of my competitors who's already made try to make my life difficult by writing an rb and then getting me pulled in as a second or a third bit. So you get my point right, I mean, but this is all about really good strategy and preparation. It's all about really think. It's chests like this is thinking three, four moves ahead, not just reacting to the move that that the other player just made on the board. Right. Yeah, I mean, I'm not the greatest chess player, but I understand that concept really well, and so I was my biggest piece of advice on this would be when you get something like this, stop for a minute and think about strategy before you just act, right before you react. It's ten and it's like yeah, and this idea of editing another example of that. Don't just exit with a knee jerk reaction. Exit in a way that sets you up for other conversations in the future. Set you up with some credibility. At least gets people, at least set your eggs in a way where no one can say bad things about you for exity. How's that? At a minimum? All right, that's like the minimum. Yeah, I like. I love that point, Brian, and I'm also reminded of a vendor search. I guess you would say. We had several years ago and I had a relationship with one of the options and they qualified themselves out and they had had meetings with us and they qualify themselves out by an email. They sent me just a blank and emails like Hey, I don't think this is a good fit. And I already had an established relationship with them and I was taken aback by that. And guess what, you know, four years later we're looking for the same type of vender and I did not call them. Yeah, yeah, it's it's not, it's it. Let's feel. If you know, people don't remember what you said, they remember how you made him feel. Yeah, you know, or you know, it's not what you say, it's how you say it, whatever, whatever idiots and whatever the whatever you call those things, whatever that might be, it's that's truth. It's it's how you do it. That's kind of matter. And it may open up the door to will. Wait, what do you mean? We shouldn't date? What do you mean? You don't want to take me right? Right. So you mentioned you mentioned strategy and I know that we've covered this topic in some other are in some other Webinar. Is A podcast, but I want to talk about it here too, is you do have the opportunity, if you're strategic and you're doing the right account planning and you have the right relationship, to help the customer build the RFP. Who would, who wouldn't want to do that right be in there so early? But I think the question is always how, and you have some great thoughts on that.

I'd love you to talk through some tips to help the sellers out there actually trying. Yeah, I thinks, because I think this is important. First and foremost, you know, you got to look at the universe of your territory and be honest with yourself about where are my opportunities long term, because you know there's pipeline, there's there's ongoing deals that you're working on, but then there are other accounts that require a different Lens. There are accounts that, because of their size or just how the company is built, their more formal right, and you know our if like so that's first thing. Understand your territory, makeup and understand which accounts are probably more apt to live in this world of a more formal process, and then start thinking about forget the deal level, forget the RFP level for a minute, start thinking a level up at the account plan. Who are the people that, once decisions start getting made that are going to affect us? Who are the people inside of that organization that are going to matter when it comes to writing in RFP, putting in RP, together that kind of thing, and start creating what we used to call, and I think is still often called, a relation ship strategy. And it's funny when I use that word sometimes you'd be like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I've got lots of personal relationships in the account on the time out. There's little are and there's big are. Like little are, is that right? We go to lunch, you take my phone, calls that kind of Tuct. Big Are is we're having business conversations that are forward thinking, right, and they both matter. I'm not suggesting one doesn't matter the other does. They both matter. But when I talk about relationship strategies with people, I'm thinking about, again, strategy, key word, getting in a room and really thinking about especially if there's more than one of me calling on the account. Who are all of these different players, by name or by title, that we know we need to start building relationships with, and how are we going to do that? WHO, inside of our team, is going to do that? How is Rachel going to go after this person on the marketing team that we normally access to, while Brian goes to this person in the people who typically own the lines of business? Somebody else is going into some technical parts of the business? How are we going to build those relationships over time so that there's some strata against strategy and thought out execution to do that? Because if you live at the account level it makes it a lot easier to do the next thing, which is just start getting them thinking about the issues that we are most relevant to in their world before those issues either become big, big issues or before somebody else gets in there and start building in RP at the product level that we now have to respond to. Right, you know, that's you know, because what happens is a another competitors coming in at the low level and they're trying, you know, they're trying to productize the conversation and and basically get somebody at the low level to spend Twentyzero or Fortyzero a budget to do a science experiment in the hope that science experiment turns into some enterprise opportunity. And I'm not...

...saying that's a bad strategy, depending on the account. But again, that's a tactic that somebody else might be using and if you're not having if you're not building these relationships and having these business conversations on the front end, there's a good chance that that might happen. Right now, all of a sudden somebody's brought something from the bottom of the organization up and people are starting to look around on all that's interesting. What does that thing do? What is it solved for? So and before you know you've gotten back door into an RFP. So that that's why I think this thing, this thing, is so important. I think the other thing you can do is, I have found this very effective in the past, is to have a we used to call it internally. I think he's called an RFP or a bit influencer and what it was. And they again, this is like anything else. If you're not careful, people will see it in the wrong way. But we had a document when we would do large manage services engagements, for example, and and other large but there's just just one example where we could go into an organization and would say, listen, we know you're thinking about this topic, we understand you know why you would be thinking about it for the business and this is where you're trying to go and this this, for example, is the cost savings and the people impact on everything that you can do for the business. Is all very positive stuff. What we have found, though, is the numbers associated with these projects are so big for the company, the outcomes are so big for you, whether you whether you do it with us or not, that that can start the cloud judgment and people can get so focused on the number, the outcome, the cost savings and all of that stuff that people forget what it really needs to get to that outcome and make sure that you not only get to that outcome but then it actually stays it doesn't revert back to the old way six months later because you didn't do it right. So we'd like to give you something. This is a two three pager. These are all of the things and we would write it in customer language, not product or future language. These are all of the things that we know organizations need to think through so that they could come to the right conclusion for themselves. Security was like, as an example, like if you don't think through security as it relates to the following, two or three or four bullets, there's a good chance you're going to make a decision and something's going to go wrong on the other side. I'm not telling you what decision to make, but I'm suggesting to you is these are the three or four security bullets that you and your team better think through before you ask anybody to come in here with products and solutions. It was obviously well written for us because of the product and solution differentiation we had, but there was no one that could read it and say, Oh, that's because you do this and other people don't do it. Or if that's not what it was, it was. This is stuff that, whether you buy from us or not, if you don't think through, good luck, you're going to have a...

...revolt, you know, etcetera, seter etcetera as a result. Yet I think I love that idea, and you know you're really making the point, Brian, that it's while you're going to sort of tea up your differentiation. It's vendor and not agnostic, but obviously you're teaming up your differentiation because it matters to the customer. The fact you do it this way will lead to better outcomes of it of the customer, and that's why you're selling what you're selling. So making it in the outcomes of the customer and almost vender agnostic, yeah, really be beneficial. Yeah, the worst thing that ever happened when we did that was we had a couple of clients who and and as I remember, they were both more procurement driven. They weren't line of business type of folks. But you know, they got a little upset because they'd look at it and they'd start to dig it and they'd say, to your point, Oh, I get it, this is all built around you guys and your solutions and how much better you are. And we had no issue looking someone in the eye and saying, hold on a minute, we do these things really well, but you tell me what on this list isn't important for you and we'll take it off. That's not what this is about. This is about whether you buy from us or not. What does it take to get to a great outcome like we were we were do we were doing contracts that were very large and five to seven years long, and we're going to have an impact on a customers business. That's that is fact. And the numbers, not just the dollar value us, but the numbers to the customer were significant, and so we had no problem looking the customer and say hey, this is about whether or not you can you can cut whatever your total revenue line is at the top if you can save somewhere between, I don't know, one to two percent of that. If you don't want to do that, that's fine, but if you want to do that, this is what it takes to get to those kinds of outcomes and actually make it stick. So That's how to your point. It's okay. Yeah, I love how you just disguised. I just wanted to add that additional peace in because it's just a it's about you. If I'm the right fit, that will be a natural outcome. Exactly exactly. This is such a meaty topic, Brian we CA. Yeah, we could do like a ten part series on it. Yeah, I think I'm going to land the plane here. Love for you to to wrap this up kind of give us a summary. I know that there are a lot of people listening out there who are finding themselves in this very situation right now. I'm sure they're going to say, Oh, let me go back and write that down or yeah, backtrack this podcast, but if you could just kind of wrap up your key points as it relates to these RFP's. I'd love to have you do that here as we close. Okay, so first and foremost, I think, however, the opportunity comes to formal RFP, verbal request somewhere at you know, request...

...for information, whatever it might be. The first thing you've got to be willing to do is take take a breath and really look at this thing and ask yourself, what is this initial thing telling me? And let's think about the more formal rap, because if it's the verbal request, it's like Hey, well, that's easy. It's like wait, stop right there for a minute, help me better understand what you're trying to achieve before I start talking about myself. Right, that's the one. But I'm the formal side of this. It's you really got to read it. You can write, I mean you got to read the Dang thing and and you have to really think about okay, what is this as written telling us? Look, and I know you're making some assumptions, but looks like it's already been written for. Looks like this is pretty early stage. And then you can take that, that initial understanding and match it up with the relationship strategy that you do or don't have in your account and you can start to make some initial decisions about next steps. But I put what I promise you is a universal truth, is that, unless you wrote the RP, which we're not talking about in this case, that the first next step is to is to get in front of people to better understand. Do you have any opportunity to help this customer think through this conversation more widely and deeply than they would have if we weren't in the room? That's that's the first decision you got to make and then get into the how are we going to do that, so that you can then show up, and I think this is the other thing I would recommend. You have to show up at these meetings with something. The RFP influencer that I talked about a few minutes ago as a good example that you can use to get people's attention. Here's here's another quick example. In these large manage print services deals that I used to work on, we had a ten question test, and I love to this. We would get a meeting with we would try to get it with multiple people, but even if it was only one, we had ten questions and I've helped other clients. I walked in through this example. For in some of our clients I've helped them kind of build their own version of this. Doesn't have to be ten, it might be five, whatever. But we had ten salient points and they were discreet questions. They were yes, know they break the rule on on open ended questions. They were closed end in questions, but they were purposefully closed endo because we would say to everybody in the room, okay, we're going to ask you ten questions. Don't share your answers with anybody else. And the first question would be who, by name and title, is the project sponsor? The second question would be something like what are the business metrics that are being used by that person to judge the success of this project? The third was and then we got into some yes and knows about the collective organization, Cetera. And then when we got down we say, okay, we go round the roots at Rachel. How many yeses or actual answers do you have? And Rachel would share her answers. Oh, I answered yes or I have an actual answer to for these. Somebody else would have five,...

...some of it to somebody have seven. We say, okay, what does that tell you, and then we would make them, we make them figure it out, because what that tells you first and foremost is we're all not on the same page, we all don't have the same answers. And then we would say, look, here's our experience. Our experience is if you can't do eight, if you can't answer eight or nine of these ten questions collectively, you should not do this project with anyone, because we know from our experience and we can point to other accounts, clients where it didn't work because they couldn't, like we have learned, these are the ten questions that will tell you whether or not this project is going to succeed, whether you do it with us or not. Now, some of those couple of questions probably started to lean towards our differentiation, but a lot of them were actually about them. And so, and the point I'm trying to make care is a lot of what we've been talking about today is about how you sell, that what you sell. Yeah, a lot of it has been about your willingness to look somebody in the angle listen, whether you buy from me or not. Let's just put that to the side for a second. Well, let's just have a live conversation about what you're trying to achieve, how you're going to measure success, whether or not you've got alignment around that internally, so that we can then have enough of conversation. But what does it truly take to get there? Because if you're willing to have that conversation with me, I'm willing to give you everything you need to include look you in the eye and say I'm not the right fit. Who would deny that? I'll tell you whole deny it. The one third of the people who don't want anything to do with this, because all the way back to what we talked to the beginning, and that's it, and that's the data point, right, and I know what I do with that data point. I'll let you choose to be what you want to do that data point. That and I think that's what it really boils down to. This is about how you react in a moment, not what you say, I mean, but what you say comes right behind it. But you get my point. Yeah, that's that's my summary. Oh, last and not least, go flying to my you know, my favorite. Out of every ten deals you work on, you're going to win three just for showing up, they know you, they love you, they like you, whatever, you're going to lose. You're going to lose three just for showing up. They know you, they hate you, whatever. You know, it's the for in the middle that you really got to compete for, and so your ability to quickly assess when you get an Arp in the mail, you know it ain't the first three right, it ain't one of the ones you're going to win automatically because you got the RP in the mail, but as now. So now it's in one of the other two category. This is one you're really going to at the compete for or one you're going to lose no matter what. And I think it was our friend John mcmahan who said there are two winners in every deal, right, the rep who wins the deal and the first rep to get out of the deal because they realize they don't belong in it. Whoever said it, I'll give John Credit. I've never you know, but I don't know it's sure or not, but somebody said. I think it's brilliant. So that's the thing here. Really understand quickly can we compete and is it worth competing for strategy and that execution the end, the end world, drop...

...the MIC right there. Fight for those four all right. Thank you so much, Brian. I appreciate you joining me for the conversation today. My pleasure. Thanks, Rachel. See soon. All right, and thank you to all of you for listening to the audible ready sales podcast. At force management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Are Proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit US at force MANAGEMENTCOM. You've been listening to the audible ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time,.

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