The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast
The Audible-Ready Sales Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

Leading From the Front W/ Paul "PK" Kleinschnitz, CCO at BlueVoyant

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It takes conviction to lead a sales organization to the next level. What can you focus on to help your sales organization deliver results? Dig deep into the mind of the Chief Commercial Officer (CCO). John Kaplan goes one-on-one with Paul "PK" Kleinschnitz, CCO at BlueVoyant, an end-to-end internal and external cyber defense platform. PK digs into key areas of focus for leaders around:

  • How leaders are driving alignment with their buyers today
  • Building a sales culture that’s focused on individual and company growth
  • Key factors to incorporate into your sales transformation initiative
  • How to Lead From the Front to achieve critical company objectives  

BlueVoyant is hiring, more here: https://www.bluevoyant.com/careers/

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When a lawyer and a sales rep uses the word economic buyer, you know in the same sentence. Whether they know or not, they're connecting in a way they hadn't in the past. You're listening to the audible ready podcast, the show that helps you and your team's sell more faster. will feature sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth, presented by the team at force management, a leader in B two B sales effectiveness. Let's get started. Hey, it's Rachel with the audible ready sales podcast. Today a special episode for you. John Kaplan goes one on one with the chief commercial officer of Blue Voyant Um, John Kaplan. Today we have a special episode for you, Long Time Executive in the cyberspace, Long Time friend of force management. I'd like to introduce Paul Kleinschnitz, Chief Commercial Office. are a blue voyant John. How you doing? To Bad? I'm doing fantastic, brother, I'm doing fantastic. So let's start off and I'm gonna give a little bit more background. You've had a really awesome career. Brother from coal fire Uel, first data, R s a e m c tell us a little bit about blue voyant, how you wound up a blue voyant and tell us about blue boyant. Yeah, I appreciate that, John. I definitely feel blessed through my career and feel blessed to be here in a blue voyant. Blue Voyants, it's a special place. You know. It's about will be five years old and a couple of months. So we're, you know, we classified as a startup, although our growth path as well beyond kind of startup in our maturity, if you would, our authority in the space as well, beyond a five of your your old organization, and that was one of the things that drew me to blue voyant Um, you know, the authority that we have, with the resources and the staff and the roster that we I've been able to rapped the tech that we built. We've built some of the best technology and the world as relates to our our NDR platforms and our threatened Tel platforms. And then also the trajectory of the company was really appealing. So I've you know, Um our CEO likes to said that. You know, they hired me to take us from tens of millions and hundreds of millions and I've done that a couple of times and thoroughly enjoyed that journey. Um, kind of this stage of company and where I've been there about nine months and we're well on our way. That's awesome. Now you have looking at your career. You've had, you've done a lot of different roles, but you've really been around that security kind of value proposition for a long time. What what is it about that, the security space, that is appealing to you? Yeah, and you know what? You know, what I really appreciate about cybersecurity is it's it provides a sense of purpose. A lot of times when you're in a commercial role like mine, you know your job obviously is to grow to the top line, but you know the results of that are lighting others pockets or you know which is sure that's going to happen in any kind of you know, Um Business Organization. But when you're in cyber you know you go to better night, you wake up knowing that you did something to help someone else, you know, fight off the adversary or defend against, you know, the bad guy, so to speak. And at Blue Voyant, you know we see that in rows, the insights we have into the adversarial components, Um, the defenses we have to bring forth. Um. It gives us a sense that we're not just revenue producers, were not just sales people, were not just marketing people, were not just servicing clients like where. We see it as our responsibility to bring our wares to market to help defend our clients and partners. Yeah, I like I like the way that you describe that. So, p K. Oh, sorry, we forgot to also, your nickname is P K and it's uh, probably I'll refer to if that's okay for you. I just called Pek, but we'll let the listeners know that. I'm not being rude to you. That's what you...

...prefer. I think my wife and kids, I only want to know me as Paul, so it's all good, all right. So, P K, I get a lot of conversations from a lot of a lot of sellers out there that will ask me, Hey, what are some of the what are some of the hot spaces to be in? And you know, obviously one of the topics that I always talk about is anything having to do with anything happening to do with security. It just seems like you can't Um, you can't pick up a publication or read a publication or read be aware of something happening every day, especially right now with the way the world is, with some world events. You've got any advice for people out there on you know, is security still hot space? How long do you think it will be a hot space, and why do you think it's so relevant right now? You know, it's it's a question I've been getting for, you know, the fifteen years I've been in this space. It's like, is this a way? Is this just like the Internet? Is this going to come and go? In the heart, reality is known, because there's always gonna be threats. Those threats are are human beings, and human beings are really good and adapting and the motivations for the adversaries is very appealing. It's a lucrative business. So when you kind of take those ingredients and mix them together, that's there's always going to be, unfortunately, a battle to be fought and that battle is going to change on a daily basis and therefore, you know, those of us who are, you know, in the business of defending against the you know those threats are always going to have you know, our value is always going to be there. And the need for us to evolve with the threats is always going to be there. So it's Um, it's not something that I see going away. You know, the current world events, I think is, you know, putting a spotlight right on the need. Um, it's also Um. It's also creating a lot more, unfortunately, capacity on the on the other side. So short answers is, Johnny is it's a great career to be in a because there's purpose and because it changes. And See, it's it's, it's it's it's here to stay because we're gonna have to defend on those who need defending. Yeah, I kind of describe it, like you said, you've had that conversation for fifteen years. I kind of describe it as a job or a career for life. It's uh, it's hot now, it's probably always going to be hot. And along those lines, I just want to are you guys hiring right now? I want to be able to get let you have a plug for I'm assume you're growing fast and what's that look like for you all? Yeah, so we've doubled our business every year for the last four years. Our plans to do the same this year. We're actually hiring on average of person a day and specific to my organization, we hired eighty people in the last six months and you know, we'll have an organization close to d people by end of year. So shore answers. Yes, we are hiring the best of the best. We're hiring good talent and anyone that wants to join a rocket ship that has purpose and has uh where we're investing in people with thinks like force management and others. It's a great place to join the team. That's awesome. Let's give let's give a little bit deeper dive of some of those components about that rocket ship and some of the other philosophies that that you've had as you've been a part of and building these rocket ships. I want to talk about some key themes with you, if you're up for it, um. One is kind of building a culture of accountability and and Um, I'd love to hear your thoughts about, you know, visibility and accountability and your kind of philosophies on that. How do you do it and what would I prepare myself for if I was thinking about joining a firm like yours? Yeah, I mean those are actually the two words that I probably used the most, I think about the most and kind of hold you closest to me as as a leader, as a commercial leader in an organization, I believe it's our responsibility to get the good products and services out to them. Um,...

...so I think some, some leaders see this as a right and honor, you know, like where the sales team, we get to do this. I'd seem a little differently, especially at Bluevoyant, where Buevoin and spent four years building some incredible, I mean incredible, platforms and and and tools. It is our responsibility and commercial organization to get those out into the market, to get those two where those who need them. So along with that comes the transparency of what we're doing, the transparency of what our commitments are in the business and then providing the visibility into that, you know, as we go through a month, requarter or whatnot, and then accountability to our commitments. Right. So a sales organization, let's face it, it's it's a cost alright, and when it operates it's, you know, the Ry is obvious. When it's not, it isn't. And therefore we need to be as transparent and accountable to our commitments to our stakeholders, whether it be our executives or product owners, investors, board members, as we possibly can. So it's core to everything that I do as a leaders, start to and everything that you've since I've known you in your career. I mean I think we probably became aware of each other back in the R s a day uh, and then, as you know, progressed and through coal fire and now blueboyant. You've always had this this culture of accountability to your sales leadership team to help sellers succeed. And not just the sales leadership team, but you kind of drive the entire organization as the responsibility to provide an environment for salespeople to succeed. Give us, give us a little bit more Um definition around that. Yeah, so the first thing is is, you know, I define sales with a lower case s's. A lot of times you come in and be like, well, sales, this sales add said. Well, let's define what sales is, right, you know. Are you touching a client? Are you influencing a client? Are you adding value? Well, you're in sex. So let's talk about your role as part of the sales process versus, you know, the upper case sales people who got quoted. So I look at things as broader and more of a commercial fashion and say what are what are the roles necessary in order for us to the lighter clients and solve their problems, which then you know that yields a sale as a team versus individuals. So you know, whether it be louisvoyant or before. I look at the total commercial organization, from product to all the way through the legal customer success and say where and how we touching the client Um and what part of the process are we excelling to and do we know our role right? Do we know what our role is going into a media or going into an RFP? And you know, a lot of times I'll tell the cells person, so, the person carrying the quota, you're the cat, and they kind of look at me like wait, it's like no, boss, like I'm the guy, or I'm the like I'm the woman, like well, you're the cat. Let me explain what that means. Is it's your job to still up the course. It's your job to set, you know, the tea time's your job to carry the bag and when it comes time to perform, she're jumping it out of the way and let's do their job, because that's where clients gonna talk to you. So it's really about, you know, role definition, you know comfortable with your role, being clear about your role and knowing how that role, you know, really contributes to broader team. I like that a lot. I have not heard it quite defined that way as the caddie before, but that makes a ton of sense. We're all experiencing for a lot of different reasons. The world out there has just created this massive shortage and war on talent. What are you finding from a recruitment process? Things like the way that you differentiate yourself and the advice that you give your sales leaders. How are you competing for that war on talent today? And you just think about our listeners that are listening and say, man, we're all recruiting and it's it's really, really difficult to find that right you know, to find that right fit. Just not a lot of unemployed people in this space. So what advice do you have for the listeners out there on that? Anything you do differently from a...

...war on talent? Yeah, so, Um, you know, the first thing is is, and you mentioned it earlier, it's culture, right, you know. So from day one. It's, you know, defining the culture and fighting for the culture. And it began culture. What I refer to, as you know, extreme respectful competitiveness. Right. I want my reps competing with each other, I want our marketing teams competing, but a respectful weapon. Right. You know, in a way that that that we're having fun and Um, and you better believe we're gonna be competing with our competition, right, you know we're gonna be winning. Right. So it's it's a competitive culture, it's a winning culture. And those are kind of obvious answers, John, were coming from frolling. Maybe the not obvious is a culture of growth and investment. Um. So, as you know, Um, you know, we're investing heavily and enablement at Bou boy, and that was something that I didn't, you know, in place before I even accepted the job or before I stepped into the job. And you know, we're going through a very prescriptive plan to where we're creating noman's clature, you know, across the organization, I mean the organization product, through legal right all the way through it, we're investing heavily into the the rep themselves were investing heavily into the marketer, into the client success individual, and we're doing this over Um an eighteen months, twenty four a month period, and it's not a one and done right and we're investing in the culture of a mablement and growth. And I had an interview today with an individual from Poland and he said, you know, you asked me the same question. John. Is Interesting, I said. I said we grow and I said I'm gonna make you more marketable in six months and you would have been otherwise. And I'm not worried about losing that individual because we're investing in them and they're gonna have a culture of growth. So it's twofold. It's a culture that's competitive and as winning as, secondly, as a culture of growth of the individual and the team. I love that. The one of the things that you mentioned it and I think that I was involved with you in those initial conversations at blue poyant and you gave us a call and you said, Hey, man, I want to really make a great decision here and I also want to add maximum value to the company. And I really love how you did that. Like it was like really really early days for you at blue voyant and you your value to that company was to help build an alignment around knowledge skills and therefore creating a character of an organization. People have heard me talk about that before, but the knowledge that's required, the skills that are required and getting the entire company around it. And you actually did it prior to that was really kind of your mantra prior to joining, and then you got us involved really early in those conversations. Could you kind of walk us through your thought process a little bit, because I know you even said it was part of your value proposition, your ability to align the entire organization around the backbone of the sales organization and all, and not just when you say Ales, it's not just the men and women that have sales quota, it's anybody communicating with a with a customer. Could you kind of walk us through your thought process when your first approached blue buoyant and a lot of people would say, well, so, what are you gonna go spend a bunch of money with, you know, sales training companies like force management or Web? It wasn't really about that for you. Walk us through kind of your your thought process when you approached them and how you made it your value proposition for them. Yeah, so, I mean it's probably important to know. Um, I think you mentioned it brieflyer there. I've had a relationship with you guys for fifty plus years. I went through it as a rep, I went through force manager as a leader or manager, and then I've now deployed it as a as an owner, so to speak, you know, a couple of times. So for me it's a proven method. It's a proven method also right. I've seen it in it's right and true to the point where it was non negotiable in terms of enabling a culture of growth and in an organization like this. So, and you're right, I did not oppist like...

...training. I think that's you know, if someone asked me and like what's a lesson learned, I don't ever approach something like this as if it's a sales train. Right. What it really is is a commercial transformation and it needs to be inclusive of anything that has relates to the client and product development. I jokingly say product to two legal because people kind of get what's in between, right, but the point being, it has to be an inclusive program that has a buy in from the top down, and that is for me, is fundamental. Right. So we started with Medpick and command the message, and for me that was, you know, very simply, let's get everyone, you know, in a common vernaculate like let's let's let's get this, get a singular playbook. And what that does is, whether people realize they or not, they're connecting. Right, when I when a lawyer and a sales rep you know, uses the word economic buyer, you know in the same sentence, whether they know or not they're connecting in a way they hadn't in the past. Right, and not to mention all the value of the method. Right, we all know that Med pick is a great qualification methodology, but I think the unspoken things it's it's a connector because it's, you know, common philosophy. And the command of message was the other because you know, boulevoyant and a lot of you know fast growing companies, because we've got some incredible things, we've got really good stories to tell, but we don't have a cohesive way of doing it, or we didn't have a cohesive way of doing it, and that's when we kind of came out of the game. Right. So in our first what six months, we went through those two programs. We trained Um, we built the program and put over a hundred people through the the process with at the time that was a third of the company through the company went through a MEDPIC and command of the message. Coincidentally, we're actually rolling out command to sale. Are Building out command to sale and M O r this week and that's our phase two. So, Um, when I approached our stakeholders, which were was our board and our CEO, on this concept, it was look, I've done this before. I know we need to bring a lot of people together, we need to it very quickly. We need to make sure where we can change our messaging, that our partners and our clients understand better what we do when our value is and here's how I've done this in the past. Here's what I want to bring in quickly and that's how we've been able to Um, you know, kind of deploy these programs so in such a quick and meanful manner. Here. What are some of the without being self serving on my part, I mean I really do want to hear this to give people some spirit, and then I say self serving, I'm gonna ask you about some some of the takeaways. You know what's been what's worked well for you? What's been difficult? You've brought force management in. Uh, I think this is probably your third time of, you know, being the initiator of of doing that, outside of the other times that you've been a participant in it. What have you seen as results? And we can talk about the good, bad and ugly. You know what, what what do you like most about what you've been able to do? And then what advice would you give about the hard stuff? Yeah, so, I those are the intangiblestuff that's hard to measure, which is, you know, um solidifying a culture or Um and, you know, building a culture that's strong and collaborative and t moriened. I mean those are things that are hard to quantify but you know, are absolutely results going through a process like this, you know, six to nine months in a year, and you know, I see it. I see it every day week. Some of the more direct proof points, which is what I think you're driving at, is, you know, previously, you know, we saw an organization that had one, you know, or a single million dollar account and over a four year period, grow that's over twenty million dollar accounts. We saw our average sales price triple. We saw our average account size triple and we saw our rep ramp decreased by and that's where we were focused, Um and UH. Here at Blou boyant, we're seeing similar things, but we're focused on on acquiring new clients and cross sell, and early indications suggested our our SP has gone up significantly in...

...the last two quarters, as well as our pipeline production. Pipeline production going into this current quarter, Q two, Um, is as strong as we've ever seen, and the percentage of which it's in proposal, I think it's triple what we see in the past. So standing the results are there, but you know, those are lagging indicators, right, and those are lagging indicators, in my opinion, of a strong team, of a collaborative team, of a team that knows what the mission is, what the messages on how to approach the client. When you get those things right, you know the numbers. The numbers show up on the board. Yeah, I don't. I totally agree with you on that. Do you have any advice, Um, for people that are thinking about, you know, implementing something like what we do? Doesn't have to be with us, but something like what we do do. If you have any advice to tell people to say hey, you know, you better, you better put your a a thought process in place, and you've alluded it to a little bit more, a little bit earlier when you a you know, I don't think of any of this is training. What other advice around those lots? Would you if somebody called out for in order to get I want to get those results? What are some things I have to really contemplate that I might not be contemplating? Yeah, so I think the first thing is you've gotta focus in the long game. Right this. This is absolutely if you want to. If you want sales training, like go find, you know, something else, quite a bank. Go Find, you know, solution selling or something like that, which is all great, and that's training. Right. If you're focused on driving growth results, you're focused on building a culture and the team, then you know you've got to be looking at this no swords, you know, no Um closer, if you would, the twenty four months and and that way it forces you to look at this as a program that forces you to figure out how you're going to reinforce this and you have to repetition is absolutely critical. You have to put it at the practice. So you know, as an example here, the week after we trained the team on Medpick, you know, our forecast calls hard with met pc and we went to daily forecast calls for the entire company and, as I always do, I got pushback on Gesp K. that's a really expensive call. I'm like, well, you know what's a really expensive call not to have, because this is where we're training, this is where we're putting these things to practice and this is where we're going to be executing against the things that we've learned. So, first and foremost, John, it's it's it's a program and it's a long term Um and it's something that to build into the culture and you can't compromise on it. Right if you once you started, you know, you don't stop it. Secondly, is is expand the scope or what you within the organization or who you think should be involved. Um, it's really easy to be like okay, if you're carrying a quota, it's required. Well, of course, but who else should be involved? Who else is going to contribute to or learn from this program? It's obviously marketing client success, but I encourage our product teams to join. I encourage our legal teams to join our finance teams, because you build you know, whether they whether they want amit it or not. Everyone wants to be a volved everyone wants to participate in growth and learning. And where the where the team's going, not to mention, you know, the fruits are obvious. Right. People understand what you're doing, they're brought into the program, they've got emotional connection to it and they're seeing the results as you're, as you're going through it. Um, I guess some warnings. There's, you know, kind of the other side that's it's hard and you know this is not this is not this doesn't happening in a week or a month or even a quarter. And Uh, you know you're gonna get you know, the people are gonna come and question the investment, people are come and question the results and people gonna question the method and you gotta just hold you gotta hold hold the line and have the confidence that it's going to pay off, as you're doing things that are as unpopular as weekly pipeline calls, you know, with the entire organization on, you know, learning from each other and challenging each other. And then lastly, I would say, Um, you know, embrace it and have fun with it. You know, like you're gonna get. I get to the point where I feel like, you know, I'm a broken record or I'm, you know, the one drinking the KOOL aid. I think that's...

...the point where you know that your your team's listening right, they see you leading from the front and truly embracing it and living it, that's when they take it. So yeah, I want to just Um, I want to give you some props on that and then also just for our listeners, of others that are thinking about an initiative like the stuff that P K is talking about. P K, what I love about your program is is that you lead from the front, and the best advice that that I could take away from what you're saying is you have to own this. You can't delegate it, although you have a wonderful sales development organization and you've had wonderful sales development organizations. You've partnered with those people to deliver outstanding programs and outstanding transferred knowledge and skills, but you've always lead from the front in in just how I'm you know, my opinion. What I've seen from your success is that when they know you're doing it, when they know you own it, it's different than if sales development owns it or if, you know, marketing owns it or what have you. Could could you give us your opinion on that? And, by the way, of all the things that you have to do and you've got to own, when we're telling, you know, sales leaders like you, chief commercial officers, that you have to own another thing that's not trivial, like owning. This is not trivial. Could you speak to it? It's not trivial and it um it requires conviction and I think the requires conviction on the come, on the results. You know, it's it's it's funny you mentioned that is you know, this is the week we're building out our phase to command and sale, and it's yeah, you know what you guys call white color prison, and we're lost it on then for three days and I'm not going, is this the best use of my time? Like I'm being honest with myself and my spoolers, and I remind myself, yes, I'm building an incredible foundation that so many can scale from. Right, there's one of me and there's you know, half a dozen, you know, of my of my leaders. But we gotta scale well beyond that and this is one of the tools for us to do it. And if you are focused on growth and scale, like we are, and you know you're in a position like me where I know the results are are absolutely going to be there, it's easy to make it a priority, but it's not es easy for me to communicate as your priority to others. And that's the part that I think, you know, I would prepare others in my seat for, which is the CEO of the board. And it may not be obvious, it's like, Jeez, like they're putting a lot of work into this. I nobody sales enablement, but but, like, this is a lot of your personal work and you just got to remind them that. You know, in a quarter or two when the numbers starts showing up, it was a direct result of some of the investment here. And you just gotta get you know, put in the work. You gotta go in that weight room that you got behind you there and exercize what you're what you're preaching. Yeah, we have we have a saying here that there's no elevator in this com versation. You know you have to take the stairs, you have to you have to lead from the front, you have to own it, you have to participate in your own rescue and just just my hats off to you, but because I know how hard that is like. You know there's a lot of pressure for you and people get Amnesia. You know you've got to do the white colar prison, you've got to be a part of all the planning sessions or what happen, and there's a lot of a lot of pulling on your time. But I think that one of the reasons why you've gotten the results that you have and everywhere you've been is because you did lead from the front and it's a clear message. You're not asking people to do anything that you're not willing to do yourself. Well, it's a lot more fun. Yeah, I know about you. I don't like watching much rather be part of what's going on, whether I'm leading from the front or leading from the back. You know, I want to be in the game with one of the things I want to uh get a chance to speak to about. One of the things I have a lot of respect about your career path. You are and I'm gonna ask you about it. What I what I think...

I remember, is not only do you have an athletic background, we'll talk about that separately, you have a technical background and then you also have a sales background. Where did those two how did it start? Where did it intersect? And if you could speak to people that are, you know, that maybe are more technical in nature, people that are on the technical side of things and, you know, thinking about being more customer facing, what have you walk us through how that manifested itself for you started out technical and you are now, you know, chief commercial officer and have been leading sales organizations for a long time. Walk us through that. Yeah, it's it's it's at least I find my family finds it a bit of a comical story and it's another relevant topic here in the clinch his household. I go atn eight year old going off to college and we're having this conversation because you and he wants to take P as a generator or something and my point, but he's intimidated. He's like that I'm not that guy with the Hoodie and the tattoos that are like, you know, happening in people's organization. So I'm like, like that's not exactly what like. That's not all it is. So there is a sense of Um, wow, the technical side of of what I do or we do, is really daunting, but the the competitive commercial side of it's really appealing. Like, you know, how do you get into it? I stumbled into it, I'll be honest. Right, so I was blessed to kind of stumble into this. Um, Um. I've always had, you know, one foot in the kind of two very different worlds. Um. You know, when I was in college, I was I was on the basketball team. Um, I wasn't you know. I was lucky to get my big butt off the bench every once in a while, but I learned my role within that team, which was to make the those around me better. But I was also, you know, the only individual on the team going after a computer science degree. Thankful I had a dad who pushed me and said, look, I don't care how good you think you your son, you're not making it passes levels. You better get smart. And so, Um, I got a computer science degree and in college, you know, I was on the team, but I was also on the what we called the data iota, uh, how science club. I learned very quickly how to interface with very, very different people and how to bridge that that gap, and I didn't know at the time. I was just doing what, you know, what was in front of me. My first job at a school in the Sea of Kukar loves to laugh at me about this. Um, I was, you know, a web master. Right, I was writing code. I learned very quickly that I was much better with people when I was Zeros and ones and kind of progress from writing code to Managing People Writing Code. And at some point I'm on board the details with some sales leader said, you know what, you work a room really well, like you're gonna come work for me, we're gonna give you a quota, and I'm like no, I'm not, and they're like, well, give it a try. I had grown up in an engineering household, listening to my dad complaining at dinner every night about him making the sales guys all the money. So, you know, like it flipped, like you know, I'm not gonna be the guy complaining about making Miller's money. I'm gonna do both. So they answered Ush and I've been blessed to have one foot in both areas and be good enough and either to bridge the gap because of what we do. You've got to bridge the gap between business results and, you know, technical results, and that's really where, you know, company like blue voyant or those that were you know, we're building up in terms of sales of blue voyant trying. is where you can sit in the middle and broker that technical and that business dialogue to say here's Your Business you know, we've identified where your business metrics are. You know, we know what they are. Here, here's what it's going to take technically to meet those and let's talk about how we partner, you know, to do it together. So hopefully I answer your question. That's how I've gotten into sales. It was a different way and I've made a decision years ago that I'm gonna, you know, I will be in a commercial side of the business. Um, I always want to be a revenue generator and I'm going to be in cyber you know, until I retire. I love that and something you said just actually highly resonates for me. Whether you go through command of the message, whether you've done it or not, are you're...

...thinking about? One of the things I love about it is it forces you to really contemplate the intersection where the technical requirements support business outcomes. And I believe whether you lean technical or whether you lean business, the most elite sellers on the planet that I've seen just like you described. They have one foot firmly planted in both the technical arena and the business arena, and I think that's just really, really good advice for people listening. And even if you lean more business, like I did when I started to get into software, I leaned more on business acumen and I wasn't an engineer. I was selling engineering solutions and I wasn't an engineer, but it was the ability to bring those two worlds together I think is the is the really crux move for success. So well done on that, brother. Hey, listen, I want to wrap up with a couple of h a few rapid fire questions to you, and they are really just kind of fun uh topics to get to know a little bit more about you and they're they're, you know, some of the things we might not actually be asked a lot. But what's the best piece of advice that you've received that you don't commonly here? Well, that's a good one. So I'll answer that question with a quick story and I'll make a quickly promise. Yeah, so I was. It just came off a really nice call, you know, career defining win, and decided that I was gonna, you know, walk myself into the President of the organization's Office and essentially demand of Rais. You know how the story you can just you can tell this story. I'm waiting. And so I got myself geared up, I jumped on a plane and flew into Boston, and I mean this is this was coming off a really substantial Um, you know, a nice move for the company and and I got myself all fired up and I walked in. I basically said, and here's what we've done, here's what I've done, here's my value of the company. Let's talk about my rays. And the individual is talking to just kind of looked at me and, what seemed like hours, just paused, which was completely uncharacteristic for this this individual. And he looks back up and he says, P K, it's a good thing I like you, because anyone else I want to walk out of this room thirty seconds ago. So let me give you some advice. And he looked at him he said, he said, don't look for your next move don't look for advancement. The opportunity finds those who overachieve and the role they're in. I will never forget that and I tell anyone that I'm you know, you know coaching, mentoring, interviewing, whatever. Especially in this day and age, it's like, don't go looking for it, like the role you're in, crushing, like overachieve and make it so obvious of your value and the opportunities will find you. And since that day that advice has hold true for the last ten plus years and mice, that's similar to somebody where to ask me that. I think some of the best advice I ever got similar to that was if you want the next job, act like you already have it, and that always resonated to me. I didn't necessarily need the title, and the demonstration of being capable of doing the job from the job that I'm currently doing was very, very powerful advice. So I I kind of did what you did, kind of kept my head down and I acted like I already had the next job and it just became obvious when those jobs became available. Great Advice. Um. So, therefore it leads to kind of like your how would you describe your leadership style. You know, first of all, I cringe when someone calls me the boss or the manager or whatever, because I see myself as a coach. I Love Coaching, you know. Um, you know I plan on when I retired, you know, at least from corporate life, I'm gonna go back to coaching and the high school coach, and I see my man my job right now is just coaching. Like I just want to see people grow, I want to see organizations grow, want to see teams grow and Um, if I'm...

...doing my job in that manner, that means I'm on the floor right I'm not in the stands, I'm not in the box, you know, I'm coaching them and and I'm growing the individuals as well as as well as the team. I love that. And then the last one is the worst mistake you've ever made on the job. Well, there's been a lot, um, but the worst for me, the most meaningful or the one that, you know, I look to avoid when you learn, the one you learned from the most, maybe, I think. I would say, is undervaluing the importance of culture. So for me, I didn't truly understand what good culture was until I wasn't in it and I'll just kind of leave it on that. But you know, once I learned that, I make sure that whatever culture I'm a part of, you know, responsible for, is pure as integral, is fun. is a place where people, you know, I measured this off the individual's partners right, if an individual's wife or husband or boyfriend or whatever, you know, if they liked the job that they're in or the culture they're in, you know you've won because they get the unfiltered you the king and to me it's it's culture and I I underestimated that, you know, at one point in my career and I won't, I won't do that again. It's so funny that you say that. I remember presidents clubs and other meetings or events that we had with spouses significant others. I would always go out of my way to speak to the significant others and the way that I was received, I realized, was exactly what was going on in the private time or the private moments, and sometimes I was really pleased with the way that I was received and then other times I realized that there were some things that I needed to do just because, you know, the significant other or the spouse is really in a relationship is there. You're both kind of supposed to protect each other and it comes out. So I always used to love to do it. And in any that's great advice to be able to give people when you're out there and you're any type of events or phone calls or any interaction that you have always addressed the significant others. Not to put anybody on the spot. To just see how things are going and you'll be able to tell. My experiences, you can tell instantly how that employee feels by how that significant other addresses you. I am in my experience rather this has been a blast. Let me just do a quick recap, can I um? We began the conversation talking about accountability and visibility and we talked about you talked about just the opportunities that blue voyant. We're gonna put a link to blue voyant in the in the show notes here to make sure that those that are interested can reach out to to your group and and uh, you know, enquire about just a rocket ship company. You talked about a culture of growth. You talked about being the Hattie, which I'm gonna I'm gonna Really really contemplate that. I've I've never heard it quite that way, but I really, really liked that you talked about extreme, respectful competitiveness as part of the culture. We talked about focusing on the long game when trying to implement some of these things that you've done around alignment and a culture of outside in, customer first and knowledge and skills that you bring to the company. And then you talked about the last kind of major thing that we talked about was sitting in both camps of whether it doesn't matter whether you're technical or business oriented. You have to put your feet firmly in both of those camps where the technical requirements intersect with the positive business outcomes. What did I miss that? I Miss Anything? Now? I think you're good and although I'm reminded that my my analogies need to be more diversify it outside of sports, so I work on that. I don't think. Hey, dude, normally that's the NOTCK that I get. People say that about me,...

...but I don't think we talked that much about sports for I thought you did great. Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us. Thank you for just being an outstanding leader from the front on all of our engagements on behalf of force management. We know that anywhere P K is and anywhere they're going to implement any of the force management solutions, we're going to have outstanding success and we thank you for that and thank you for the time for being with us on the audible ready sales podcast. My pleasure. I appreciate the partnership and everything you do for us and thanks Sean. You got it, and thank you all for listening to the audible ready sales podcast. At force management we're focused on transforming sales organizations into elite teams. Are Proven methodologies deliver programs that build company alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale. Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results. Let's get started. Visit US AT FORCE MANAGEMENT DOT com. You've been listening to the audible ready podcast. To not miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Until next time, M.

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